Learn me track driving

This is just a general learn me. Im not quite sure where to get started or even if this is a good idea. I spent some time in and around 2 stroke karts and formula SAE cars and it was a blast. My team practiced at Willow Springs in SoCal and I really liked the environment there and so Im looking to get my car out on the track. Im not looking to actually race, I just want to drive fast in a controlled environment. So, where do I get started?

Some helpful info: I have moderate skill (at least I hope I do) behind a wheel. I was one of the drivers selected for my formula team and spent a good amount of time in a 2 stroke kart being shown the ropes by a team member who races karts competitively. So Im not a total noob behind the wheel.

I have an E36 which would be great but its a convertible and isnt passing smog. I recently picked up a Mazdaspeed3 which would be a blast but its my DD and something tells me I shouldnt track my DD. The idea of picking up a cheap track rat has entered my mind but that isnt practical for me at this time.

Any advice? Should I drop this idea and find a local autocross instead? You guys seem to give pretty good advice on these kinds of things. Thanks!

The way to find out, is: try it. Find a local club event and sign up. NASA can be a good place to start. BTW: its a great idea!

I started my track driving with NASA. You start with DE1 (DE is drivers education, you're learning) and you have an instructor in the car with you at all times, limited passing with point bys only. You progress through DE2-4, shedding your instructor and gaining passing privileges as you prove to instructors and other drivers that you're safe and competent. From there you can move to Time Trials which is timed (this is how you win at DE) but can still be done in your street car if you want. This is fast, open passing, but with a lot of respect toward letting faster cars past, so although you're all going fast on track, you're not really racing each other.
That's where I'm at now. From here I can get a proper race car and attend a weekend competition school and if I pass that I'll get a provisional race license.
It's a good system and I'd highly recommend taking the first steps. It's worth it.

NASA as mentioned above. That's how I got into racing.

I would not track a DD. The E36 convertible won't be acceptable without rollover protection. Sell it and buy a hardtop E30 or E36 (or anything else that you think is cool). Stick to cars with a huge aftermarket and not something oddball like an Isuzu Impulse. Better still if you can save your pennies and buy someone else's track rat they've already spent money on.

The car ultimately doesn't matter that much. HPDE is about improving the driver. Slower cars are better teachers than fast cars. My best students drive Miatas.

There are lots of HPDE events you can go to. When you run the novice or "green" run group, it's a very controlled environment. You get classroom time first, have an instructor in the car with you, and passing is only allowed with a point by. It's a great way to get on track and minimize your risk.

Just beware...you're basically staring at a crack pipe right now and deciding whether you want to put it in your hands.

Marque specific clubs often have HPDEs as well. I've had great experiences with the local BMWCCA (car club of America), AudiCCA and a friend looked running his miata with the local Porsche club.

As mentioned, look for a driver's education event. Other than that, if you have some semblance of self control,I wouldn't worry too much about taking your DD on track your first few times, you won't be anywhere near the limits of the car and you'll be with an instructor.

Oh, and what Klayfish said about the crack.. It might be cheaper and less destructive to personal relationships to find a dealer now :)

I started with a local group that does HPDE in the area, we have a few good tracks near by. They had a driver acclimation program for new drivers, spend some classroom time with you and will put an instructor with you for your first few times out. After that, it's just a matter of running with the right group and learning. I'm sure there is a group in your area.

For the last decade, dad has apologized for not encouraging me to spend money on hookers and blow. He instead encouraged me to play with cars. Hookers and blow would have been cheaper and less trouble.

Never track a car you love. Or need for work on Monday. Autocross is not track. That one I have no problem with using the daily or love car. Hpde/tt can get ugly on occasion, which is why I think the way I do.

The e36, since it won't pass smog, should be all but worthless due to inability to register. I think I'd throw a cage in it, and track the piss outta it through de1 and de2. Can't sell it for what it's worth, and need a cage for safety rules for any Hpde club I've run with. (The Mustang club runs an event at cmp that allows convertible, but speed limited to 80mph)

It's a slippery slope once you start tracking. Track is crack. You'll be talking, thinking about it 24/7.

Get a Miata. A well set up and driven one can be really fast. They are easy on tires, brakes, there's a huge aftermarket/information.

Start by taking a long hard honest look at your significant other, and see what they think about the whole thing. How much of a strain it is going to create will impact how much you are going to enjoy the game. Mitigate as required. Might require a new kitchen or foreign travel.

I did this with a dedicated track car. It was an MG. It never did NOT break, and as such took time and money every time. Stopped being fun because of that. Arranging tows also gets old.

If you are single, just show up in whatever road worthy non convertible you are driving. Bring a helmet and $$$ and go for it. It is a lot of fun even if you never do it again. If you do get hooked, the path will be obvious. You will have new friends to misguide you.

I recommend starting with an HPDE event. In SoCal, the AROSC (Alfa Romeo Owners of Southern California) puts on great events - they just had one this last weekend and the next one is at Streets of Willow Feb 20.

Cars regularly can and do get balled up due to digging in and rolling. (As an aside, while autocross was very educational, I tired of standing in the hot sun all day for 3 minutes of track time.)

You need some kind of roll protection if you go the Miata route. There are plenty of bolt-in options that are approved though. Not a big deal.

I've tracked my Miata a few times. Its a very fun car to drive, even though it can be embarrassing when your instructor tells you to pass someone after receiving a point-by and you're like "Its floored already! Approaching redline!". The car was never fast in a straight line haha.

Also, whatever route you go, remember HPDE is not a competition, so its not about being faster than everyone else, but about improving your own skills as a driver. Dont worry about trick suspension setups or big power. Spend your money on safety and making the car reliable.

Lots of good advice here. Just one more thing. You don't have to think of track days and autocross as mutually exclusive. Unless your "big life decisions" involve whether a 40 foot boat is "big enough" or whether a 12 car garage will hold your collection, finances are probably going to limit how often you can track your car even if its purchased specifically for that purpose. For the price of a movie and some popcorn, autocross gives you a great way to supplement and have more "car guy days" per year than most can afford doing track days only. Its also easier on the vehicle and a safe place to actually compete with other drivers. I've done both, and still enjoy both. One caution: autocross is miserable if you go run with the wrong groups. Track days are only miserable if you break stuff.

Desmond wrote: I've tracked my Miata a few times. Its a very fun car to drive, even though it can be embarrassing when your instructor tells you to pass someone after receiving a point-by and you're like "Its floored already! Approaching redline!". The car was never fast in a straight line haha.

FWIW, Miatas can be very fast on-track. There's a class of Miata called "Super Miata" which allows modifying only the engine intake, exhaust, ECU, and running street slicks. We were absolutely blown-away by them getting down to a 1:34 lap time. We asked an owner more about them and he claimed the highest power they get is about 140 hp, but the most amazing thing was his remark that "yeah they corner at between 1.7-1.8G." I'd call a big BS on that, but the lap times don't lie. About the only way I can see a 140 hp car doing a 1:34 is if it never brakes, which means incredible traction in the turns. Downforce could make that happen as well, but with only 140 hp, the realitively low speed and induced drag make me think it's not a big contributor.

@ the OP

Advice? Sell the BMW get a car you can take to the track (the answer comes to mind) go look for a HPDE school locally and see if you like it.

If you are in the North east look at COM Sports Car Club

http://www.comscc.org/

They run a very good program. It is where I got my first on track experience back in the early 80's when I wanted to get on track for the first time.

You could keep the BMW but I think at a minimum it would need a bar and you would need to install arm restraints and of course you would need to get the smog issue fixed or trailer it to the event. Add all that up and it may be cheaper to get a beater track rat to play with that if you decide you like the sport you can upgrade or sell and move up. If you don't then you can always sell it and be out nothing more than the cost of the event.

The only other bit of advise I have for you it get in to the slowest car for your first event. Driving a slow car fast is the best way to lean. My first event was in a 79 RX7 that I put in primer the night before the event with a set of regular passenger tires on it (may have even been all season tires) stock everything else. It was one of the most fun cars to drive on track and I had a blast.

Make reliability a priority as this will lead to having more fun. Speed will follow along by its self with out you even realizing.

Depending on how disciplined you are and what you expect from a track day, I think it is perfectly reasonable, even sensible, to "dip your toe in the water" with the DD. See whether you like the particular track, for instance. "The throttle goes both ways." More sensible, maybe, than buying a dedicated car with no experience at the place you intend to use it.

Kb58 brings up a the essence of track days; with all the great cars these days people think they must have something with 250hp yet drivers in gutless wonders manage to put up fast times. For the record Spec Miatas are in the low 2:36s at Willow and the best ones have 115-120 whp so Super Miata with 140 at the wheels would easily pick up two seconds. For compassion this is faster than Steve Millen has gone in some rather high end street cars (note he is driving them on rock hard stock street tires)

I run my Datsun 1200 vintage racer at the Porsche club track days I instruct at. While the car is 1678lbs / 1814 with me in it, the motor is only belting out 100 hp to the rear wheels. I run the car in the intermediate group due to the lack of power, some of my fellow instructors run their Spec Miatas in the same group. I end up passing 75% or more of the cars in this group. I do run in the top 5 at vintage races but I should not be passing modern cars, obviously the driver matters.

There are tons of videos from my home track, Spring Mtn Motorsports, and in turn 1 my mid corner speed is 73 mph. You can find loads of videos of people driving SMMR and the telemetry will show turn 1 mid corner speeds from 60-70 mph. Loads of Z06 and newer Vettes, Porsche 911s, WRXs and M3s on sticky tires traveling through a corner 5 mph slower than an old Datsun.

Here's why this happens and why I bring it up; I arrive at the brake zone for turn 1 at 106 mph and need to shed 33 mph by mid corner. By comparison the aforementioned modern car driver may be doing 120 mph and if they are on street tires need to shed 55 mph. This is not the easiest thing to judge for a new driver, even one with some experience. The result is a tendency to over slow the car. One of the reasons underpowered cars make drivers fast is the slower closing speed allows you to focus on corner entry and the fine art of trailing braking. Watch the brake lights on cars driven by people carrying tons of corner speed and you notice how deep into the corner the brake lights are on. They are not braking to slow the car but instead getting it to turn. Watch the slow choppy cars, the brake lights go off the instantly and you can see the nose of the car pop up and the front tires scrub off more speed. Again when you arrive at a corner with 55 mph to much speed the tendency is to brake brake brake now.

So what the heck does all of the above have to do with you doing track days? It highlights why you want a low powered car, your driving will advance quicker, because your driving is smoother, you'll use less tire brakes fuel money etc. Starting out you could use a bone stock Miata on street tires and have loads of fun. The BMW is fine but I would go with a lighter car as that will also cut the tire bill when you do want grippy tires.

Overall track days are fun, you show up have fun BS cars with other car nuts and get to driver a car on its limit.

My 1.42 worth, Tom

ddavidv wrote: NASA as mentioned above. That's how I got into racing. I would not track a DD. The E36 convertible won't be acceptable without rollover protection. Sell it and buy a hardtop E30 or E36 (or anything else that you think is cool). Stick to cars with a huge aftermarket and not something oddball like an Isuzu Impulse. Better still if you can save your pennies and buy someone else's track rat they've already spent money on. The car ultimately doesn't matter that much. HPDE is about improving the driver. Slower cars are better teachers than fast cars. My best students drive Miatas.

or turn it into a dedicated track car ...

keep in mind, that there is a saying that no one has brought up yet ....

you shouldn't ever take a car on track that you can't afford to walk away from after you deliver it to the scrap yard

I've seen many very new cars totaled and the owners not only having no way home, but still owing 10's of thousands of $$ on the car in question ... some have contemplated ins. fraud ... that just adds to your problems (this shouldn't be taken to mean I thought YOU would try this )

if you MUST track you DD (especially one that's not paid off) investigate track day ins

if the E36 isn't worth all that much, you might look to fitting it with an approved 4 pt roll bar or even fitting it with an approved cage ... could still be licensed for the street ... depending on your states regs. so that you could still drive it to and from the events

edit: missed the bit about smog ... so assuming it is cost effective to keep it and turn it into a track day car, you'd have to figure out the transport problems

Good advise about track day insurance. Speak with your insurance company or better yet your agent. I asked mine about this and was told that in an instructional environment I was covered but ANY form of competition be it racing or even timed laps AKA time trial I was not. I got this in writing from my agent and then took my then street car out on track for my first HPDE. That was years ago so thins probibly have changed and I am sure it varies company to company.

Get your insurance to sign off on it or get track insurance and do it to it. You can't have more fun.

Whatever car you take swap the brake fluid to the good stuff and check pad depth. Stopping is pretty important.

Most importantly check the ego at the door; unless you are a driving god you will suck no matter how fast you think you are. Part of the game. I would 10000% recommend NOT getting a transponder or timing your laps. Focus on smoooothly driving THE line (no the one you make up).

Once you are safe and smooth on track check the spec miata records; realize how slow you are, and layer on the speed.

dean1484 wrote: Good advise about track day insurance. Speak with your insurance company or better yet your agent. I asked mine about this and was told that in an instructional environment I was covered but ANY form of competition be it racing or even timed laps AKA time trial I was not. I got this in writing from my agent and then took my then street car out on track for my first HPDE. That was years ago so thins probibly have changed and I am sure it varies company to company.

most ins companies now-a-days, aren't that easy any more ... any track incidents, regardless of timer or not, aren't covered ... there ins. I was talking about are specialized track day ins. different from regular liability/collision ... i.e full coverage ...

The language often reads "if the event takes place on a racing surface" you are not covered. They are on to us, and the policy language is changing. Never assume you are covered for any kind of event where a helmet is required.

I see both sides of the insurance thing, but to approach your own insurer and say, "Hi, this is Mr. X and my policy number is Y, will you give me temporary insurance for racing?" Oy, I think there's about a 99% chance they'll say no AND cancel your regular policy because you've just disclosed that you're a wanna-be racer and are "therefore" a high risk.

I can see calling from a different phone and asking, but don't give your name or policy number!

Always assume that any damage incurred at a track is coming directly out of your pocket.