Less expensive alternative to the wrx?

are you willing to do some wrenching?

Been helping rebuild a 95 impreza racecar that is a real bastard.

The dang things are like legos. SERIOUSLY.

The one I was working on has 2.5L block, 2.2L heads, a forester pedalbox, STI trans, WRX crossmember, STI rack, IIRC STI suspension, with a JDM wrx harness, and ABS. Thats just off the top of my head.

Get an older impreza with a tired engine and take your time and shop for a upgrade swaparoo.

e23inGB wrote: And i know its not awd but what about Viggen's? http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/4122802506.html

Torque steer, torque steer, torque steer! The MS3 can also have torque steer issues, but I never found it to be as bad as the Viggen.

BTW, I will also vouch for the MS3 being excellent in the snow when equipped with snow tires. Changing just the rear engine mount does wonders for the steering, shifting, and wheel hop.

I know you may have nixed the Audis, but I wouldn't discount the older 5-cylinder models. They have galvanized bodies and can be made to be pretty quick. I don't see many that have the "Euro-t00n3r" treatment like the mid 90's-onward cars. Of course, I don't see many at all nowadays, but the ones that are left in New England don't exhibit the tin worm nearly as badly as other cars of the era.

I'll plug the Volvo again, similar to the Audi the body panels are galvanized.

Compare insurance between a S40 T5 AWD to a WRX. I'd expect an S60R to be cheaper to insure as well.

Granted the Volvo AWD isn't as robust as the Subbie, but the modern Haldex system is a significant improvement over the old viscous couplers.

Additionally, change the timing belt when recommended, oil change every 5K ish miles, and the White block is about as reliable as gravity.

• Lee

In reply to bigdaddylee82:

Learn me more about the T5 S40's. Aways been a Saab person so by nature I've grown to hate volvos haha. But an S40 with the T5 has to be a fun car. 5sp I'm sure are harder to find but the search is half the fun.

In response to Apexcraver: I do like wrenching, just not that much right now for a daily driver. But a build like that for the future would be fun for sure.

I don't understand why everyone is afraid of DSMs, especially compared to a turbo Subaru. The turbo Subarus are more fragile and finicky then DSM's, yet many people regard DSM's as time bombs. The main issue people bring up is the timing belt. And that problem is the result of bad mechanics not following directions, not the car itself. Done correctly, it's a non issue. Just about everything else is just normal age and wear related. They are like any other car- buy the best example you can afford. The cheaper one with the deferred maintenance will cost you more in the long run.

In reply to Boost_Crazy:

Don;t get me wrong. I wouldn't mind owning a 2nd gen DSM or even a 1st gen. I feel like the crowd that its into subies now had dsm's and trashed them. Clean DSM's are few and far between from what my experiences are. But now you have led me to search CL tonight to prove myself wrong.

Could try another Subie. Are you gonna be paying cash or financing? I ask because some people mean different things when they say a 'new car'.

AWD is the sticky part. Another mid-$20k AWD Turbo car is hard to find, Lancer Ralliart is in the vein, but a little bit slower, and almost certainly about as expensive to insure. There are plenty of other good performers in the range, but they aren't AWD, or they're too $$.

Boost_Crazy wrote: I don't understand why everyone is afraid of DSMs, especially compared to a turbo Subaru. The turbo Subarus are more fragile and finicky then DSM's, yet many people regard DSM's as time bombs. The main issue people bring up is the timing belt. And that problem is the result of bad mechanics not following directions, not the car itself. Done correctly, it's a non issue. Just about everything else is just normal age and wear related. They are like any other car- buy the best example you can afford. The cheaper one with the deferred maintenance will cost you more in the long run.

DSM's are 18-22 years old now. I haven't seen one up hear in years that runs. Most of them have returned to iron oxide or been blown up by hamfisted mods.

I have really limited experience with Subarus, but if you want cheap and dependable, I'd do that before Audi, although I like Audi's build quality better. Volvos are probably equally good cars as Audi, but the early AWD are quite fragile and expensive to fix properly. We have a '99 V70XC, which we recently converted to FWD because of the cost fixing the totally shot driveshaft. Turning radius is better now, too.

The early Volvo AWD is pretty useless except to induce a bit of oversteer, and then only when it's very slippery. Torque split in normal driving is 85/15, front bias, so it's nowhere as good or fun as an Audi or Subaru. If you get stuck, you're gonna remain stuck in the Volvo. Great cars, and we like ours, but their AWD (at least early versions) is useful only as marketing.

Subarus come with a caveat, too, but it's one that can work to your advantage as a buyer. The 2.5L engines often need head gaskets at around 100,000 miles, and many times that's quoted as costing a couple grand. Unless there's documentation that's been done recently, immediately deduct $2500 from your top offer, take it to an independent shop and get it done for $1000 to $1500.

I would think an older Forester would be the ticket.