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Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
8/7/16 10:05 a.m.

Derrick Cope is running for Wayne County Speed shops now?

http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/franchises/xfinity-series-highlights.xfinity-series-watkins-glen-international-derrike-cope-okay-after-strange-explosion.5073864877001.html

fasted58
fasted58 UltimaDork
8/7/16 10:19 a.m.

Saw that happen live on tv, was gonna post that myself. Never seen nothin' like that before.

Not even a glint of flame or fire should rule out fuel or oil. Tire/ inner liner explosion? The cloud is most likely brake dust. Holy hell, that was a helluva explosion to blow off the hood like that.

Car was impounded by NASCAR, no official word yet, maybe by today's race.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn UltimaDork
8/7/16 10:24 a.m.

If I remember correctly, Wayne County was hiding nitrous oxide in a frame tube?

fasted58
fasted58 UltimaDork
8/7/16 10:39 a.m.
Trackmouse
Trackmouse Dork
8/7/16 10:57 a.m.

Wtf was that? That's a top fuelie consplosion!

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/7/16 11:00 a.m.

I've seen brake rotors in f1 explode kinda like that.

Never that big or at that slow rate of speed.

Could it have been a brake rotor that took out the tire suddenly?

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
8/7/16 11:25 a.m.

That was no brake explosion, and way too big for just a tire. The force of the blast is mostly on the left, but it looks like the RF tire goes down. I think that was black smoke not brake dust. Strange that there was no flame, or maybe it got the radiator quickly and that hid the flame. Hard to imagine a blast that big without flame, like it did the burning contained in a vessel and the vessel burst. It was so violent that it split the front fender above the tire and removed the hood skin leaving the hood framework on the car! Maybe a mixture of some hydrocarbon (propane) and N2O which made it burnable in containment?

I think that team is in big trouble.....

I found another link to discussion of the event and it has right side pics and the right tire is flat, I think it was hit by shrapnell from the blast.

http://talk.cobraregistry.com/showthread.php?8804-Cope-s-Car-Explodes

NordicSaab
NordicSaab HalfDork
8/7/16 12:24 p.m.

There is definitly something non conventional going on there.

The biggest question I would have is why did it happen at a slow creep, (theoretically) with the engine idling or off?

As stated above, propane in the frame seems like a reasonable guess.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UltraDork
8/7/16 12:24 p.m.

As a not-a-big-NASCAR type, I'm very interested in this.

nutherjrfan
nutherjrfan HalfDork
8/7/16 12:40 p.m.

Maybe this video should be in the No tool left behind thread.

rslifkin
rslifkin Dork
8/7/16 1:10 p.m.
NordicSaab wrote: The biggest question I would have is why did it happen at a slow creep, (theoretically) with the engine idling or off?

Considering he pulled off before it happened, there was presumably something obviously wrong before it blew.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/7/16 1:42 p.m.

That is quite spectacular. Be interesting to here what went wrong.

WildScotsRacing
WildScotsRacing HalfDork
8/7/16 2:07 p.m.

That was... highly suspicious. I'm guessing a hefty cheating fine is coming. NASCAR WILL discover the exact mechanism of this explosion.

gearheadmb
gearheadmb HalfDork
8/7/16 2:16 p.m.
ebonyandivory wrote: As a not-a-big-NASCAR type, I'm very interested in this.

This is the kind of thing that could make me a NASCAR fan. Somebody mentioned propane in the frame, that would be some pretty high end cheating. I would have to applaud the ingenuity.

fasted58
fasted58 UltimaDork
8/7/16 2:19 p.m.

Missed the Sprint pre-race show, did they say anything at all about this incident?

Typically, NASCAR impounds and findings are released on Tuesdays following weekend races. IIRC.

paranoid_android74
paranoid_android74 SuperDork
8/7/16 3:32 p.m.
NordicSaab wrote: There is definitly something non conventional going on there. The biggest question I would have is why did it happen at a slow creep, (theoretically) with the engine idling or off? As stated above, propane in the frame seems like a reasonable guess.

If he slowed and pulled off from a race pace, wouldn't the engine (etc.) temps go up for a short bit? Thinking of decreased airflow...

Whatever it was, I don't think it was a tire either.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/7/16 3:34 p.m.

That could be a tire. I have tested tires to failure and we bent the 3" steel bars on the safety cadge out 4 inches. So it could be a tire failure

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
8/7/16 3:46 p.m.

My tin foil hat scenario says it was a mix of some gaseous fuel and nitrous that burned inside its contaiment vessel.

I say fuel and nitrous because you cant just add nitrous (oxidizer) you have to mix sufficient quantities of fuel with it to maintain a burnable mixture.

Nitrous is usually mixed with fuel in the manifold, but if you are cheating you cant have a bunch of strange plumbing and I doubt you can mess with the EFI enough to work without leaving a trail. (I think the EFI is sealed) It has to be very simple, one hose. That means N2O and a fuel mix to be squirted into the intake stream somewhere.

Now as for the explosion, chemistry 101 tells me that one should not mix an oxidizer and a fuel together. Separately they are fairly safe but combined, well lets just say BOOM! But to do it simply with only one hose they have to be premixed. If somehow fire got up the hose (or the tank got hot enough) it could conceivably burn inside the tank. Burning inside the tank would over-pressureize the tank and cause an explosion if the fuel was exhausted before or as the tank burst there would be no or little flash of flame.

If this is the case I wonder how NASCAR will flex it's rule regarding the seizure of non compliant parts! Will they chop saw the LF corner of the frame? Besises a fine some one (or a group of someones) will be invited to not attend a few races or perhaps worse due to the explosive nature and the safety ramifications of the event. That popped RF tire could have been a human life. that will make governing bodies, insurance companies, and sponsors, knees shake and complexion to pale.

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
8/7/16 3:49 p.m.
dean1484 wrote: That could be a tire. I have tested tires to failure and we bent the 3" steel bars on the safety cadge out 4 inches. So it could be a tire failure

But the left tire did not fail, the right did. by the video the force of the blast was on the left side. In fact if you look closely at the video you can see a puff of brake dust pushed out through the LF wheel like a smoke ring!

I just replayed the video about a hundred times and you can see a puff of brake dust from the right side as well, but not as strong as the left. There is also some kind of (white?) flash on the pavement on the right side it is momentary and begins about 5 feet from the car and extends to about 12-15 feet.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
8/7/16 3:52 p.m.

Jerry Eckman never made another NHRA pro stock pass after his "fire bottle" went skittering across the pits...

I've seen video of tires exploding dramatically after the rims were welded while it was pressurised. It causes some sort of pressure spike that doesn't really fit with the amount of heat added. I suppose if some red hot thing got on a wheel, it could have done it. I've also seen lots of tires blow on race cars. Not a one of them blew the hood off the car.

One thing about it, it was such a visible and exciting happening, it will be really hard to sweep it under the rug. I think we will get most of the story over the next week.

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
8/7/16 4:02 p.m.

The NASCAR museum has a collection of seized cheats and descriptions of others on display.

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
8/7/16 4:06 p.m.

Eckman was pardoned july of 2012

http://www.dragzine.com/news/jerry-eckman-pardoned-will-race-at-indy-after-15-years/

novaderrik
novaderrik UltimaDork
8/8/16 1:52 a.m.
bentwrench wrote: My tin foil hat scenario says it was a mix of some gaseous fuel and nitrous that burned inside its contaiment vessel. I say fuel and nitrous because you cant just add nitrous (oxidizer) you have to mix sufficient quantities of fuel with it to maintain a burnable mixture. Nitrous is usually mixed with fuel in the manifold, but if you are cheating you cant have a bunch of strange plumbing and I doubt you can mess with the EFI enough to work without leaving a trail. (I think the EFI is sealed) It has to be very simple, one hose. That means N2O and a fuel mix to be squirted into the intake stream somewhere. Now as for the explosion, chemistry 101 tells me that one should not mix an oxidizer and a fuel together. Separately they are fairly safe but combined, well lets just say BOOM! But to do it simply with only one hose they have to be premixed. If somehow fire got up the hose (or the tank got hot enough) it could conceivably burn inside the tank. Burning inside the tank would over-pressureize the tank and cause an explosion if the fuel was exhausted before or as the tank burst there would be no or little flash of flame. If this is the case I wonder how NASCAR will flex it's rule regarding the seizure of non compliant parts! Will they chop saw the LF corner of the frame? Besises a fine some one (or a group of someones) will be invited to not attend a few races or perhaps worse due to the explosive nature and the safety ramifications of the event. That popped RF tire could have been a human life. that will make governing bodies, insurance companies, and sponsors, knees shake and complexion to pale.

Xfinity cars still have carburetors and the closest thing to a computer in them is the ignition box.

novaderrik
novaderrik UltimaDork
8/8/16 2:21 a.m.

NASCAR says it was a melted bead due to excessive heat from a broken caliper:

http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2016/8/7/derrike-cope-elton-sawyer-discuss-watkins-glen-xfinity-series-car-issues.html

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UltraDork
8/8/16 5:06 a.m.

In reply to novaderrik:

So all that energy as seen in that explosion and the damage it caused was from tire pressure? Did the heat increase pressure that much of am I missing something?

(Googles NASCAR tire pressures)

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