Lets talk DIY paint work

Toying with the idea of repainting my 2002 Subaru WRX myself. It's something that I've always wanted to do, if only for the sake of the experience of doing it... and now the car is giving me an excuse.

I've been noticing small spots all over the car where the paint is flaking off, down to metal in some places. Not the first time, the LR 1/4 panel is currently Rustoleum white because I accidentally blew half the paint off it with compressed air

I've had decent success with rattle cans, but I'm a little overwhelmed with all the thinners and various other stuff that comes along with using an HVLP (I have a cheap HF one, might look into getting something nicer).

The car is a bright, non metallic, single stage (I believe) white (Aspen White). I'm not expecting professional results by any means, but I think I can manage to get at least "decent". I am looking to do this fairly cheaply, along with DIYing some other body work (rust) in the process.

Do I want single stage or base/clear? I've read that both are more forgiving than the other Currently I'm thinking of using something like this: http://www.tcpglobal.com/RSP-AU1108-KIT-M.html#.VyYU6_krK73 Also, dumb question, does a gallon cover a reasonably sized car or am I going to want more?

Primer. Is it as porous as the internet makes it out to be? If possible I would like to be able to do prep work in smallish pieces, over the course of maybe a month. Is that too long for primer to be exposed to the elements? I assume, given the way the paint is coming off, that I will have to take it all the way back to metal.

What other stuff am I going to need? Thinner? Flex additive for plastic? Hardener? Help?

Any good resources where I can do some reading on the subject?

In reply to thestig99:

Here are my $0.02

Base/clear gives you a shinier, tougher finish.

Coverage really depends on the filler ratio.

Primer is quite porous, so I'd recommend setting up a DIY paint booth in your garage using several tarps, duct tape, and an old floor-mounted fan so you can spray it all on in one go. You do not have to take it all back to bare metal, as a miraculous thing called filler primer exists. Spray on bare spots, sand smooth, scuff car, shoot on the primer, scuff again (with a much more gentle pad this time) and shoot on the paint.

Thinner and flex additive are important. You'll also want strainers, all necessary safety equipment, stir sticks, and mixing cups, along with all the prep and safety equipment. Hardener is also important, but the amount used all depends on your climate.

Have fun, stay safe, and make it at the bare minimum, a learning experience. I'm not a great painter, but I enjoy doing it, and I've picked up a lot of good tips and techniques that I'm eager to pass on.

If the paint is flaking off the primer on there should come off. New paint and primer will probably not stick to it well. Single stage white is about the easiest color to do. Primer can be pretty porous so if you want to prep a panel at a time make sure the primer seals out moisture or get a sealer to spray over it. I haven't done paint in a while but I'm fairly sure filler primer is heavy to fill minor scratches, not for bare metal. We used an etching primer on bare metal then a urethane filler primer over it. I liked spraying urethane the best but wear a respirator as it's pretty nasty stuff.

Painting is easy, prep is not. Prep well, especially if you have flaking paint. Yes most primers absorb water so you dont want to leave exposed primer for long.

1 gallon should paint most cars, I've never needed more than a gallon for the average car.

Single stage will fade more over time. Base/clear lasts longer and if you make a mistake in the base its easy to sand it out and reshoot before clear. Its more opportunity to screw up of course but its the better system overall.

I've been doing some research on this as well. A friend and I use my "aesthetically challenged" 2000 Civic for TSD and are thinking about rallycross. While it looks fine at 50 mph from 50 feet away, I wouldn't mind trying to fend off the rust for a little while longer and make it all one shade of black.

Anyone have any history with paint from these guys?

https://www.paintforcars.com

I haven't even gotten to the point of wandering in to my local paint shop to see what they get for a gallon of paint, but I've seen that site pop up a few times in the lazy web searches I've done.

If you use an epoxy primer you can do the localized repairs one at a time until you are ready to join the dots and paint the whole car.

Once all your localized repairs are done, I would get out the durablocks and some 80 grit and start to remove your current top coat. Dont worry about getting all the paint off, if it wants to stay it should be good enough to form part of the new base.

Now shoot a coat of epoxy over the whole car.

Now block sand the epoxy to find any low or high spots. Use filler if they are deeper than 1/6" inch low. High spots need to get tapped down or shrinking disc. Respray these areas with more epoxy.

Now spray on the high build feather fill (or high build primer of choice) and block sand the whole car with 220 grit. Keep going until you have no highs or lows. Remember that coarse paper makes things flat and fine paper makes them shinny and smooth. Worn paper makes things wavy. Finish the final coat of feather fill with 400 grit.

Now shoot a sealer coat over the entire car. Finish sand it with 600 grit. Wipe the car down with panel-wipe and tack rags.

Now shoot the paint, base clear or single stage.

If the above makes it seem like this is a lot of hard dirty work that goes through a lot of consumables and expensive materials, you would be correct.

I cant see painting a car in less than a week if I took the entire week off and worked at it 8 hours a day. Add another week if you want to change colors and jamb the car.

I'd say to use high build primer for the primer you use right before you block sand it. Assuming any bare spots have epoxy primer on them. I've found epoxy doesn't sand as well as high build.

EDIT: Missed the part about high build primer.

Also interested, but would like to hear opinions of one of these DIY jobs vs Maaco. Last I checked you couldn't even get the materials for as cheap as Maaco can paint a car.

Agree with above regarding prep. I spent about 100 hours prepping my car (with some light bodywork) to paint it the first time. I used a single stage in a craftsman hvlp gun and got a fair amount of orange peel :/ My 30gal compressor was barely up to the task.

In reply to Enyar:

I've prepped cars and then taken them to Maaco and had them come out pretty nice but you are still stuck doing the prep which is the time consuming part. Cars I had them do prep and paint on came back a bit rough.

Thanks all for the input so far!

I have some idea of what I'm in for with prep... my arms are sore already!

FWIW, this fender was the last panel I painted... single stage from a rattle can.

So not trying to totally hijack a thread, but I didn't want to start another one when a lot of the same things apply.

I want to paint my currently white NA miata Subaru world rally blue pearl, subaru paint 02C. I don't care about door jams, under hood, or under trunk.

Can this be done with a dark primer and a quart or so of the ready to spray in this color? Do I need to go the whole way down to bare metal?

I've been on google the last hour or so, and god, I thought the bushings argument was crazy, guys and paint is just ridiculous. Lots of good information, but the people like me who just want a "passable" paint job aren't really getting answers. My compressor is way undersized for a gun, but I'm pretty sure I can rent one. There are also places I've heard of who will mix it into a rattle can. And I guess the roller method isn't out of the question, but it's not preferred.

But should I be looking for a single stage acrylic enamel? A single stage urethane? Do I need to go two stage just because I'm going white to a dark color?

Bright solid colors hide mistakes and dirt well, and you can match them.

Axalta Nason 43757 is the "easy button" paint - just spray until it turns mutagenic slime green.

In reply to revrico:

Strip it down to bare metal because ive NEVER seen a white miata that wasnt flaking its paint off. Iirc from my arts class a dozen years ago, dark primer if you want the final color darker, light primer for lighter. Id go standard gray. Finally urethane, do it with many coats so you can buff it to a nice shine, remember for a long ass time manufacturers only used single stage and even still you can find an old volvo with single stage paint, maybe chalky but a cut and buff and it looks brand new all thanks to thick paint and not the watered down thin crap they use these days. How big is your tank? Ive painted a jeep cj5 and miata with a 20-25 gal tank. Get the cheap filters to go right before the gun and a filter and regulator out of the tank. If you do spray clear, the duplicolor system ($20 a pint/quart/i can't remember) at autozone is good and a urethane i believe just spray it way thicker than the paint, you can imagine how i learned that

If I remember right the Subaru blue is not available in a single stage, only basecoat/ clear coat if your white is flaking taking it to bare metal is the best way to go. It goes fairly quick with a DA sander but you have to be careful to not warp the metal.

Rotaryracer wrote: Anyone have any history with paint from these guys? https://www.paintforcars.com

Yep, I used their single stage acrylic the first time I sprayed my daughter's car. Decent paint. But as a single stage you need to keep it waxed or it will fade out and chalk. But it comes back up with a wax. If/when I use their paints again I'd probably try the base clear to see how it holds up but overall for $100 a gallon its not terrible stuff.

This is right after painting

This (color not damage) is 3 years later with a daughter who never washed the darn thing let alone waxed it.

But if I wasn't repainting due to the damage it would have buffed back out.

Wall-e wrote: If I remember right the Subaru blue is not available in a single stage, only basecoat/ clear coat if your white is flaking taking it to bare metal is the best way to go. It goes fairly quick with a DA sander but you have to be careful to not warp the metal.

Paintscratch has it in a "ready to spray" but it looks too light to me and is really expensive. Surprisingly, this cheap midnight blue from paintforcars.com looks closer to the old WRC blue, and (to me) appears to be a single stage. It says single stage with the option of clear coating as well.

Chiodos:

The car is only flaking around the windshield, nice small piece I'd been thinking of doing for a while. Aside from some dings and some rust, the rest of the paint is solid. Judging by the interior, it's been painted in a hurry before. Lots and Lots of white overspray on a lot of the plastic. I probably should have mentioned that in my first post, I bet it adds a lot to prep work.

I've also picked up from the forums that the white paint from the factory had a problem adhering to the primer. Something in the paint mix, and that's why it's always been a problem. I kinda assumed and was kinda afraid that would mean stripping the car. That adds lots of time even with a power sander.

My compressor is only about 5 gallons. I'm not sure on total capacity, but my buddy has a belt driven compressor thats around 30 gallons I can borrow if I have to. At least he better let me borrow it, I'm the one that found it for him for free.

revrico wrote: Can this be done with a dark primer and a quart or so of the ready to spray in this color?

If by the ready to spray you mean the premix stuff, no, a quart wont cut it. It took me 3 quarts to spray a smart car, you'd need 5-6 to do a Subaru. If you buy just the paint and mix it yourself then 3 quarts might do it since that will mix out to 5ish.

In reply to JThw8:

seeing how that smart car came out and aged, I will more than likely go with paintforcars.com then. They have the shade I'm after and are a third the cost of any competitors I've found so far. It's a first gen Miata, I just really like that Subaru blue. It'll be different, but in a good way. Especially if that Paco motorsports lift kit ever gets into production.

From what I know, most solid white cars (at least older nissan and toyotas) are single stage. Which is fine you just need to keep it waxed and a polish every now and then. My 04 spec v was single stage paint (cloud white). I plan on painting my wagoneer with single stage red. Which I'm thinking of going to sherwin williams automotive paint center. I agree with the intimidation of mixing,but look forward to the challenge, I've never painted a car before.

DatsunS130 wrote: From what I know, most solid white cars (at least older nissan and toyotas) are single stage. Which is fine you just need to keep it waxed and a polish every now and then. My 04 spec v was single stage paint (cloud white). I plan on painting my wagoneer with single stage red. Which I'm thinking of going to sherwin williams automotive paint center. I agree with the intimidation of mixing,but look forward to the challenge, I've never painted a car before.

Dont be intimidated by mixing. Its usually 4:2:1 4 parts paint, 2 parts reducer, 1 part hardener. You'll either get mix cups with a scale on them or before you start put a ruler on them and just mark them 4:2:1 dump the bits in and stir. Painting really isn't rocket science, its just scary the first time :)

W.r.t. White Miatas: I think only the 1.6 cars flaked. I would not want to paint over that.

For a complete color change, a good primer will do the job. There are something like 8 different original paint colors under the Targa Miata's white, and all I did was scotchbrite them and hit them with primer. No adhesion problems or color change problems.

Personally, I find single stage easier to deal with. Clear and I don't get along well. The NAPA house brand actually goes down really well.

Setting up a good air supply makes a diffence. I just painted my project car last fall in a portable garage. I plumbed together a 33gal compressor, 11gal HF air tank, and my 4 gal nail gun compressor, so the 2nd compressor would kick on when needed (often). I put them in the garage, and ran 30' of black pipe with a couple drops in 1/2 copper plumbing to the "booth". The piping cools the hot wet air out of the compressor, so most of the water drops out before the filter - the little gun filters fill up fast otherwise. I used an Eastwood Concourse gun, and white epoxy primer, white base coat and clear coat from Southern Polyurethanes. (Good painting forum too) Cost is relative - it was worth it to me to buy good paint, spend some time in temporary setup, and more on sandpaper and polishing stuff - compared to the cost of a nice paint job. I tried those disposable paint gun liners this time and recommend them. I also used 3/8 air line and fittings, rather than 1/4 to help air volume. A hvlp gun will spray without a lot of air, but the pattern will be smaller and not as well atomized, or you will get halfway down the side of the car and run out of air. Otherwise, Nohome covered it well above.

mlwebb wrote: A hvlp gun will spray without a lot of air, but the pattern will be smaller and not as well atomized, or you will get halfway down the side of the car and run out of air.

Overall, great advice and I think this bit in the right context is right but lets put it in the right context. An HVLP will spray without a lot of air but it wont do it correctly. I've sprayed with conventional and HVLP and I've sprayed both from compressors too small to handle them. It can be done but you have to break up the work so the compressor can recover. HVLPs are less forgiving on the air than a conventional gun but they are worth it, I'd never go back to a conventional gun.

Well, as long as I can order in the paint in time, it looks like I have a solid week after the june autox where I will have no dog, no baby, and no distractions. That means plastic up the car port to block wind, rig up some lighting

Would it be worth it to piece prime the car between now and then? I know I shouldn't leave it primered for very long, but if I can do sections each weekend, I could have the whole car primed by that week, and should just have to wash and wet sand it before paint begins.