LISTEN TO THIS! LS1 Miata content

Just thought some folks might be interested. Elvis just showed up with his new exhaust system and I grabbed the video camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB4ZkhirtUI

SWEET.

What kind of muffler is in that setup? It sounds a little higher-pitched (trebleyer?) than my GTO.

So which do you prefer? Turboboostered Miata or V8ed Miata?

Beautiful!

So not expecting to hear that from a Miata

It's a custom-made muffler for this application. It really sounds good in person. And I have to say I'm pretty much in love with the V8ed cars. They've got that ability to push you back into your seat at any speed that only a truly powerful car does. I've taken one up to 120 mph in one smooth pull, and the acceleration never tapered off.

How do they handle in comparison to a Z06, and in comparison to a regular Miata?

Keith, I'd be interested in any handling information you've got on V8 Miatas as well, we're going to have a similar distribution and I'm having trouble finding any info.

I can't compare to a Z06. Please provide me with one and I will be happy to do so

Compared to other Miatas - their weight and balance isn't that far off a turbo car. For example, the (gorgeous) one we just finished for a customer was built out of a 2002 Miata. Final weight was just about exactly 2600 lbs wet - the 2001+ cars are a bit heavier than earlier models but have a more rigid body shell. By comparison, a 2004 Mazdaspeed turbo car is 2525 lbs stock - and this V8 car has a roll bar which accounts for almost all of that weight difference. Weight distribution is very close to a turbo Miata as well. Part of the weight gain comes from that big beefy T56, and that's well within the wheelbase. When we built Elvis, he gained 200 lbs and 1/3 of that was on the rear wheels.

Here's another example. The fastest Miata (at the time of this example) around our local track was me in my Targa car. It's a handling (kart) track, being 13 turns in 0.9 miles or something like that. That's a race car, of course. Stripped out, light, stiff. Not a lot of horsepower, but it's outrun turbo cars with 100 hp more. Elvis was built with the same suspension but is a full-fat street car. On my first three timed laps with Elvis, I took something like 2 seconds off my best time.

When Brandon and I brought the car to an autocross put on by the local Corvette club, we posted FTD and next-to-FTD. The closest Corvette was almost 5 seconds slower.

So yeah, they turn okay.

Hmmm.. v8 miata may be in my future..

Good to know. I'm trying to figure out the best way to determine what spring rates we should be running on our car, or at least aiming for.

On a Miata, we usually run an approximate 3:2 split on spring rates. For example, 450 lb front and 300 lb rear. On Elvis, we're currently using 750 front and 450 rear - should be 500 rear by that math, but we had 450s

Of course, that's the spring rate and not the wheel rate. Wheel rates on Elvis are about 389 front, 302 rear.

Keith: On your local cart track (Hmmm, how can I convince the local cart guys to let me throw a Miata out there?) how does the V8 Miata's times compare to good 4-cylinder Locost?

Also, it's interesting to me that with all that torque on hand, you aren't running any butterfly braces. Not enough room?

Keith wrote: I can't compare to a Z06. Please provide me with one and I will be happy to do so

I can't provide a Z06 for Keith, but I've driven both cars (Elvis and a few Z06s) so I can at least provide an opinion. The LS Miata rotates better than the Z06, but the Z06 has more outright grip. Both accelerate faster than my day-to-day reflexes are accustomed too, but are generally predictable and controllable to the limits of traction. It's not like I have a ton of seat time in either, but I honestly preferred Elvis to a Z06 (at least a stock Z06). Subjective data points:
The Miata is-

• Much easier to see out of.
• Narrower and more "tossable" around an autocross course.
• Just as fast as in a straight line (assuming you've got the big-boy LS)
• Could be built at my house.

The Corvette is-

• More stable at high speed (especially under braking)
• Equipped with MASSIVE tires at all four corners
• Better finished (at least while they're brand new)
• Way more to purchase and insure.
• Probably has more ultimate potential.

I'd break my neighbor's legs for either one, and if I found a magic lamp and/or Genie it would be a tough decision. I wouldn't make fun of either choice.
If I close my eyes and imagine really hard, I see myself in an LS Miata before a Vette. (Possibly because I already have the Miata part.)

The Miata is ■Just as fast as in a straight line (assuming you've got the big-boy LS)

Except where tires and aerodynamics play in, I'd expect a significant advantage to the miata for weight reasons. Any thoughts?

does anybody have experience with v8 powered sa/fb rx7s? i want one of those. i heard about a guy nearby that built one with a ford 302 and did it for challenge money.

i think i might have to stop by in october when im in GJ and check this out in person

kreb wrote: Keith: On your local cart track (Hmmm, how can I convince the local cart guys to let me throw a Miata out there?) how does the V8 Miata's times compare to good 4-cylinder Locost?

Not surprisingly, a car half the weight is faster. Here are my best times:

V8 Miata (300-ish rwhp, 2500 lbs, 225/45-15 NT-01 I think): 1:02.889
Targa Miata (160-ish rwhp, 2100 lbs, 205/50-15 RA-1): 1:04.7
Locost (148 rwhp, 1250 lbs or so, 205/55-14 RA-1): 1:01.893

There have been faster Miatas around the track (one of our Open House participants schooled us pretty comprehensively last year) but those numbers are all with the same driver so they're comparable.

No butterfly brace on these cars due to simple packaging, unfortunately. There are frame rail reinforcements (black, so hard to see) as well as a beefy cross brace at the tail of the transmission that helps add some nice rigidity.

I can believe Tom's assessment. Miatas are made to turn, and that definitely comes into play in high speed braking. We've got more tire and grip under Elvis now, but a big Miata tire still looks like a Corvette space saver. 'Vettes have the aerodynamics for big speed work - I'd probably choose one to run up to 200 mph over a miata. And both cars accelerate hard enough that I expect you'd get into the range where the Corvette's aero becomes more important than the Miata's lighter weight fairly quickly .

Speaking of which - there was an aborted "200 mph Miata" project years ago. I think the required horsepower for a 200 mph run was calculated at 450-ish. The V8 cars have the power, and 5th gear is good for just about dead on 200 mph. 6th is good for 300 Who's got the nerve?

Keith wrote: Speaking of which - there was an aborted "200 mph Miata" project years ago. I think the required horsepower for a 200 mph run was calculated at 450-ish. The V8 cars have the power, and 5th gear is good for just about dead on 200 mph. 6th is good for 300 Who's got the nerve?

[enthusiastically raises hand]

oooh me me me...pick me!

Great, back to the crazedlist searches. I hate you Keith, I hate you very, very much

Why oh why do I read any of Keith's posts. I end up spending the next couple hours piecing together monster miatas. My last one was using a LM4.

It brings the $$$ way down over the LS option and still can get you to HP #'s that would keep me grinning for quite some time.

Keep posting Keith you will soon have everyone converted

damn my sense of responsibility!

Tuesday

Lemons teammate Dave posts : my aunt's WS6 just got t-boned and totaled. drivetrain (LS1, 6-spd) is OK"

Wednesday

Dave: "insurance company says $2675 to buy the car"

later Wednesday

Justin: "there is this miata i saw on CL...blown timing belt. he'll take $500"

Thursday

Jerry: "i bought the miata sight unseen."

wish i had a spare $3300. buy of the year.

Note to self, don't live beside Tom. Note to self #2: Offer to be Tom's co-pilot.

Me too, I would run it, I believe Keith would take more care putting this car together than i would, so I trust him to do it right

Once the Upper Hand (and by that I mean my wonderful fiancee) and I are no longer saving for a wedding (next summer), a V8 Miata is definitely in the cards.

Everyone at FM is definitely an enabler. How do you explain all the projects underway? Bike-engined Locost, Miata-powered Opel GT, BMW 2002, that little MG thing...so why should it be any different here?