LM - classic Mustangs

My son is looking at old Mustangs, not running out to buy now because he has to save up. He's only 14, but saving for his first car purchase. He knows he can drive my truck when he gets his permit and license but he wants his car.  Mustangs are cars that I don't really know anything about so I was hoping you guys could help me out. I searched and found this old thread.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/classic-mustangs-teach-me/21999/page1/

I'm curious what, if anything, has changed since that thread. He doesn't care about handling or V8 vs 6. He just likes the looks of old Mustangs. There may also be part of him that doesn't want to show up to school in the sea of newish vehicles parked there. 
 

Thanks

Something from the Classic Motorsports site that might be of use:

First-gen Ford Mustang: American classic ownership made easy?

Hard to go wrong with a classic Mustang, unless it's rusted out. Pretty much every single part is available reproduced, and they're simple to work on.

Encourage kids to appreciate the classics, new blood is always good in the hobby. 

Really good first project and useable classic. The I6 is even very good. If he is going to want to really drive it hard or take classes with it then a 67+ is the best bet. 

Cougars are out there cheap as well, Falcons as well. I really like a Falcon for the money. 

In reply to wearymicrobe :

Thanks for the tip.  Can you give a brief summary of why a '67 or newer is preferred?

wearymicrobe said:

Really good first project and useable classic. The I6 is even very good. If he is going to want to really drive it hard or take classes with it then a 67+ is the best bet. 

Cougars are out there cheap as well, Falcons as well. I really like a Falcon for the money. 

The 6 cyl cars are out there and often not as beat up , but they do have 4 bolt wheels  , so you would probably want to change to the V8 brakes , 

Indy - Guy said:

In reply to wearymicrobe :

Thanks for the tip.  Can you give a brief summary of why a '67 or newer is preferred?

Not to step on wearymicrobe's toes, but starting in '68 cars were mandated to have collapsible steering columns. Previous models had what amounted to spears aimed at your chest when in a front end crash. 

You can buy almost everything for the early cars out of a catalog. 

Be aware. The quality of a lot of the offshore reproduction stuff is awful.

Sounds like my old Willys I've been working on, everything is still available but may not be the best quality. 
 

He wants a manual. Will the 6cyl manual be enough for around town driving? No interstates. Highways up to 55 mph. 
 

What about a/c? It looks like some have an a/c compressor and what looks like 3 vents in under the center console. We live in TN where it is hot and humid in the summer, so a/c or any sort would be a nice touch. 
 

And I get that they rust and the cowl is a specific spot, and the trunk, are there other specific areas to check?  

Indy - Guy said:

In reply to wearymicrobe :

Thanks for the tip.  Can you give a brief summary of why a '67 or newer is preferred?

'67 is the first year of dual circuit brakes.  '67 front spindles interchange amongst all of the brake options for that year, as well as a few of the '68 options (so no Granada brakes, or other hodge podges)

The center column is a "spear" but are we really going to only point out one safety issue with a 60s era car?  '68 was the year they started to federally mandate all sorts of safety changes, amongst them a hideous padded dash and more hideous padded steering wheel center.  Exterior of '68 has the side turn marker lights.

You definitely will want to do something to seal off the trunk and passenger cabin in order to prevent gasoline entry in case of a crash.

The I6 is an engine that cannot be killed, but it is stupidly slow in stock form.  Mild HP upgrades are available (somewhere I have a header Ive been trying to sell, as well as some weber carbs and adapters.) If manual, I'd highly recommend a T5 swap, mid-30MPG is easy with the I6.  The 7.25" 4-bolt rear for the I6 has no significant rebuild parts available, so inspect that carefully or plan for an 8" swap

What else you looking for?

Regarding AC, you'll likely want to look at Vintage Air.

Opinion only. 

68 or 69, swapped with a 5.0HO and all the efi from a fox chassis car.

Too bad you weren't about 6 months earlier. Someone here was selling a running, driving 65 with a ton of extras for $3,000.

I love 1st gen Mustangs. They are kind of like bellybuttons at car shows, though, so I went with the weirder and less appreciated 66 Falcon. The driving experience is the same. You may get a bit of a sense of it from this video. Mine is a six with a C4 automatic. Fast forward as needed.

The I6 is a workhorse. It will likely run forever, but trying to make it more than it is IMO is a path of wasted money. The log intake manifold really kills any affordable inroads to making it better. With the C4 it's competent but a bit lazy. It may be more spunky with a manual trans behind it. The only time I really minded it's lack of momentum was accelerating onto my nearby on-ramp which is uphill. But for everyday duties it's fine. They suffer from a not-great carb and one of the dumbest ignition systems ever conceived. I replaced my distributor with one from an early Maverick that has normal advance. I also found that the crank pulley was probably 'off' and it wasn't timed with enough advance. Some of the parts for the sixes are not available or hard to get (rear axle parts, rear main seal). The little drum brakes if correctly set up actually work quite well. The one thing that is generally poor about any of these cars is the steering. It's slow. And vague. And the steering box will likely be worn out. Plan on buying a new one.

The best thing about 60s Fords in general, and Mustangs in particular, is they are SO EASY to work on. Having spent my life tinkering with foreign cars, working on one of these is like being on vacation. Though not true for my Falcon, you can buy every part of a Mustang from a catalog. And the stuff is very affordable. 

The most important thing I'd look for in any car like this is a good shell. Avoid fresh paint jobs hiding sins. I bought my Falcon as a very tired looking old car but with very solid bones. I didn't have to replace floor pans or do any major rust repair; just a few patches here and there in places no one will see my booger welds. Yes, the cowl is rusted out. I just use this simple solution to keep things dry inside.

No, it doesn't blow off at highway speed. You can be pretty much guaranteed any unrestored car (and half the 'restored' ones) will have rotten cowls around the fresh air vents. It's major surgery to repair properly. I'd also get friendly with a local Mustang expert/club member who would be willing to inspect cars with you and teach you what to look for. They can really suffer from rust in ways you can't imagine and 'modifications' performed by the umpteen previous owners. Find a good one, though, and you will have one of the best hobby cars out there.

I drove a 1970 Fiat 124 Spider as my first car for years and didn't die. As long as Junior isn't given a 300+ hp engine with a car like this I don't think it's really exponentially that dangerous.

In reply to ddavidv :

The I6 is a workhorse. It will likely run forever, but trying to make it more than it is IMO is a path of wasted money.

I mean, depends on what you want from the car, depends on your mindset, and a whole host of other things.

Personally, figuring out how to get HP from an I6 feels way more satisfying.  Anyone can get power from a V8, there are literally hundreds of combinations. 

Plus, you dont have to get big power.  Small things can get you well into the realm of a better accelerating car.

Looks like all that is needed is a rusted hulk of a Fastback (plus a ton of cash), with intact VIN plate, and you can build a brand new Mustang to your own desires.  

1965 Ford Mustang Fastback - Dynacorn Classic Bodies

In reply to wearymicrobe :

200 Straight 6 1965 coupe was my first car.

It was a great way to learn cars on a really easy platform to work on.

Rust is the key and as mentioned everything is available just about from the aftermarket. 

I had a red '72 351c/C4 in highschool.

-Looked like a fish, moved like a fish, steered like a cow

-Dads loved it, girlfriends liked it, mothers hated it

-Sounded like a million bucks

Pretty sure it made me cooler, and lord knows I needed the help.

My 200ci six put down 51.3hp on a dynojet!

There really is no way around that terrible cylinder head. They are the limiting factor.  

My car was a Falcon, but they are the same. A T5 transmission and 3.70 rear end transformed the car from the 3 speed/3.27 combo. It felt like I removed 1000lbs out of the car.

Early Mustangs have pretty terrible bump steer characteristics. Putting modern radial tires on them will make this worse. There are heim joint tie rod kits that purport to remedy this but I doubt most people take the time to really dial that out.  My "solution" was to increase the spring rate and limit suspension travel.

The "Shelby drop" is a free mod. It adds a little positive caster and changes the camber curve to one that generates a little negative camber under roll. It isn't a huge difference, but it definitely helps for the minor amount of work it is.

Granada front spindles are not the bolt on solution that everyone says they are. The steering arm is in a totally different location to the 6cyl mustang/falcon. This exacerbates the bump steer problems.

Were I to go down that path again I would stay 4 lug and would do a Scarebird style front disc conversion  instead of the granada spindles. There are a lot of very cool 4X114 wheels that will bolt right up. Konig rewinds would look perfect.

Good points. And thank you

Is there a front disc brake conversion for these?
 I mean I assume so. But the one for my old Willys I had to source parts from other cars, like calipers from a Suzuki Samuri and longer break likes from a Chevy S10. 

In reply to octavious :

Scarebird offers that style of kit where you put together a list of different parts to work with their brackets. 

I paid WAYYY too much for Granada spindles, rebuilt them and the calipers and installed them with Mustang Steve ball joint adapters, only to find the steering arm location issue. Plus I had to swap to 5 lug rear end and then wheels. Afterwards I regretted that decision and wished I'd gone Scarebird 

octavious said:

Good points. And thank you

 

Is there a front disc brake conversion for these?
 I mean I assume so. But the one for my old Willys I had to source parts from other cars, like calipers from a Suzuki Samuri and longer break likes from a Chevy S10. 

It is in the top 5 (3?) most popular north American classic cars.  They make everything for them.  You name it, its out there. 

My wife has a 68 6 cylinder Mustang Coupe with the 4 lug limp suspension. I bought the suspension parts from a Granada to convert it into a v8 car, spindles, brakes, springs, 8" rear axle ... 30 years later I'm still trying to install them.

edit: And all of the power steering stuff.

PowerNationTV: Turbocharged Ford 300 Inline Six Makes Over 500 HP on the Dyno

For an old first gen Mustang a rear seat divider (sometimes called a fire stopper) is mandatory.

https://www.npdlink.com/product/rear-seat-and-trunk-divider-custom-steel/152145

Since the trunk floor is the gas tank top, the only thing between a ruptured tank and the interior is the back seat foam/cover.

https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/metal-trunk-divider-install-with-pictures.654913/

When I worked at Mustangs Unlimited we sold a bunch of them. I wouldn't put my kid in an old Mustang without some sort of barrier between the trunk and the passenger compartment.
 

Like ShawnG said parts quality can be awful. I saw plenty of absolute junk when I was at MU. But parts are plentiful and pretty cheap.