Shadeux (Forum Supporter)
Shadeux (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/16/20 6:23 a.m.

We want a small boat. In another life my wife lived on boats. I've never been on boats except for the last six months when we got our marine license so we could borrow a small boat and putt-putt up and down a tiny river locally. Borrowing infinitely is not ideal, so we want to get our own. I don't know anything about boat ownership, but I'm a GRM'er so I can make it up as I go along.  wink

What about this one: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/233974804416317   Does it look like a decent boat? Any concerns?

This looks like two fiberglass shells; a bottom and top. How do the controls (and maybe the gas) run from the center console to the engine? If a cable breaks do you just fish another through? What about water inside the tunnel? 

We would likely get a trolling motor for the primary propulsion; most of the area we go is full of fallen trees and is wake speed only and we stop a lot. I like to drive the boat and my wife takes wildlife photos.

Anyway, any comments welcome regarding the boating life to a landlubber. Gotta spend that stimulus check somehow!

 

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter)
Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/16/20 7:20 a.m.

Whalers are foam cored boats. They are a pretty strong boat and have a great reputation, but they are not my favorite. The controls should run through a PVC pipe. Changing one should be as simple as taping the new one to the old one and dragging it through. Johnson engines in that era don't have the best reputation but with care it should last. I'm not sure that's the right rig to be dealing with trees and such. A broken foot can be pretty expensive. 

For what you plan to be doing, you might be better off with an aluminum jon boat with a smaller engine. Something in the 14' - 16' range with a 15-25 hp engine. It would handle the abuse of trees and such better than a large boat. It will also be small enough to drag off things when you get stuck. Buying a smaller boat in your price range you may even be able to find a 4 stroke engine. They are much quieter and smoother than the 2 strokes like the 90 hp posted above.

 

TJL
TJL HalfDork
4/16/20 7:52 a.m.

TLDR, run away from that facebook boat like someone next to you was coughing and complaining of fever. 

 

Whalers are nice but i think fairly heavy, and you gotta pay the boston whaler tax. And that 90hp motor is WAY more than your after, fun, but overkill.

edit:  i took another look at that boat, id only take it if it was free and even then id prob pass. That things is berked. See the painted plywood on the floor? Thats a bad sign. Overall dirty, beat, probably waterlogged/rotten under that wood or had some other kind of really bad bubba'd fix.


 

i personally would suggest staying with fiberglass and as flat of a bottom as you can get, as well as a wider boat. In central Florida(i'm in Deland), you will have downed trees and shallow water to deal with frequently so you want as little draft(how far your boat will be in the water) as possible.  A lot of the back rivers ive gone down will frequently have some very shallow spots. I have a sundance f17. Very simple basic boat, its a tub that tou can configure different ways. Its like a carolina skiff, but i couldnt find the dimensions i wanted without major compromise. I wanted something about 17'. The carolinas in that length have low sides and werent wide enough. To get a skiff in the depth and width i liked, it needed to be like 24' which was nonsense to me. I saw a sundance f17 at a customers site, checked it out and man it fit everything i was looking for. Went and bought one in naples shortly after. Mine has a suzuki 50 hp 4 stroke. Nice and quiet. I put a 24v minn kota trolling motor up front and i can top out about 30mph which is more than i need.  With the weight of the trolling motor and 2 large batteries up front, it keeps the boat pretty flat in the water. 
 

lighter aluminum vhull boats are EXTREMELY tippy and in my opinion dangerous as crap. And in the rivers of central florida where the gators can be as big as your boat, stability is a beautiful thing. 
 

also remember your kinda buying a motor and getting a free boat. Dont be tempted to buy a cheap boat with no motor or a bad motor, not unless your OK with paying a bunch of $ for a good motor. Cheap free boats are anything but cheap or free. Much better paying for a better speicimen unless you REALLY want a project. I would highly suggest having a gas motor for getting where you need to go and then switching to the troller for cruising. You know how quickly bad storms pop up here and you need to be able to scoot if necessary. Id suggest about a 25hp at least. 
 

heres mine. Bought it prob 10 years ago, its a 2005 and was in great shape, low hours (under 100) and i paid i think $5500 for it at the time. Had a real nice wide trailer too. I like the wide trailer so i pretty much have a step anywhere around the boat when its on the trailer. Plus the wider axle has it so i can look in either of my side view mirrors and see my tires. See that the tires are looking good and if im in a tight spot, easy to not hit stuff. 
 

now if i could actually get out and use the thing. Its been in the water maybe 2 times in the last 5 years. Ive gotten good at replacing the fuel pump from sitting so much. 

 

 

11GTCS
11GTCS Reader
4/16/20 8:18 a.m.

I'm a bit of a whaler geek, I have the 1989 version of that boat.    The original versions of the hull (from 1964 or so to 1975 ish) have a different hull shape than the later hulls.   Newer ones are supposed to ride better and be a bit drier in slop (less spray) but with a 17 foot boat that's a relative term.   All whalers since the original ones use inner and outer fiberglass shells bonded together by a structural foam that makes everything one piece when it comes out of the mold and results in the "unsinkable" construction they advertise.   When new, that hull had an aluminum rigging tunnel from just in front of the splash well up to just forward of the middle of the boat to where the center console would have been to run the wiring, steering and engine control cables.

The foam that holds the boat together can absorb water; it's not uncommon for older hulls to gain lot of weight due to this.   Screw holes in the deck, etc. can create a path and the more a boat gets modified over the years the more likely this gets.   Understanding that the boat in the picture is pushing 53 years old, it looks to my eye as if it has been heavily modified.   The center console and leaning post are much further forward than they would have been originally.   In the pictures, it looks like a layer of plywood had been installed either over the original floor or in place of it.  If in place of the original, it's likely the foam was wet and someone dug it all out.   The whaler purists will tell you that the original foam provides the structural support in the hull and that it's impossible to replicate what was done at the factory.   Could be just cosmetics needed on that hull, could be a nightmare.   Tough to tell from pictures really.

The engine would be the next level of concern.  It's from the 90's and while it was a good engine in the day and the preferred power for this hull it's pushing 25 years old as well.  That's a long time, especially in salt water.    Modern engines whether 4 stroke or direct injected 2 stroke (Evinrude E Tec) are wonderful, quick to start, no smoke and great on gas but very expensive to purchase.  I repowered ours with a 90 HP E Tec in 2012, at the time it was the only 90 HP that was close to the same weight as the older 2 stroke, it's amazing.   Budget between $11 and $13 K depending on the replacement engine horsepower, manufacturer and the rigging needed.

TLDR; Probably look elsewhere for something newer.

maj75 (Forum Supporter)
maj75 (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
4/16/20 8:41 a.m.

As said above, that boat is a mess.  Run away.  Look for Carolina Skiff boats.  Simple and cheap.  The older BWs tend to have their foam waterlogged at this point.  Bad maintenance, owner "customization", neglect and stored outside are terrible combinations.  A nice BW like the one you posted would be 3-4 times that price.  Unless you want to spend your time messing with fiberglass and restoring that BW, find a clean boat you can actually go out on the water in.  Wife will be happier.  An aluminum john boat would work too.

Carbon (Forum Supporter)
Carbon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
4/16/20 9:41 a.m.

I was like “wohoo! Small boats with 5.3l ls motors will be cool!”

hobiercr (FS)
hobiercr (FS) GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/16/20 9:56 a.m.

There was a BW jet boat on FB marketplace in Tampa yesterday for $1600. Already gone or I would have included the link. Looked like a smoking (in a good way) deal.

11GTCS
11GTCS Reader
4/16/20 10:06 a.m.

In reply to hobiercr (FS) :

Nope, not even if it's free.   Original ones were way underpowered,later ones had huge reliability problems with the 2 stroke engine that powered the jet drive.  It doesn't matter anymore which jet drive because parts are almost unobtanium.   Literally the only whaler that's cheap and for good reason.   There have been people that take the drive out, glass up the holes and put an outboard on a bracket.   Which would be great if the boat was free and you had an engine already but...

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
4/16/20 10:29 a.m.
TJL said:

 

lighter aluminum vhull boats are EXTREMELY tippy and in my opinion dangerous as crap. And in the rivers of central florida where the gators can be as big as your boat, stability is a beautiful thing. 
 

 

Regional preferences are interesting here.  in the north, Aluminum V-hulls(wider and deeper the better) are prized for their stability.  Everyone around me is get a deep and wide 16' with a 50 horse tiller and you will slay da 'eyes... :-)  Just an observation.

 

 

TJL
TJL HalfDork
4/16/20 11:09 a.m.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Oh yeah. I like seeing the big deep v aluminum boats down here that the snowbirds bring down. Cool boats. Not very often down here you see a gas kicker on a "smaller" freshwater boat. Our lakes dont get nearly as mean as the big ones up north. 

and down here locally, i wouldnt even try to take my newer boat to the lakes i fished in my older boat. Gotta be able to float in less than 6"  to get there, fit under low bridges, etc. 

When i say smaller aluminum boats, i mean like jon boats. I have fished a few and as soon as i think im comfortable, i'd take a step wrong and just about fall out. 

At some point id like to do some fishing up north. Whole different world compared to down here.

pirate
pirate HalfDork
4/16/20 11:14 a.m.

I've owned boats pretty much my whole life. Mostly large performance/racing sailboats. Have owned some power boats also. In my opinion powerboats are not as well cared for then sailboats. A lot of people buy boats with great expectations of how much they will use them However, after the novelty wears off they are often left sitting outside with no maintenance. The caulking dries out allowing water to seep into the hull core causing weight gain, rot or if the water freezes delamination. The motors corrode inside and out, wiring deteriorates and if in freezing climate the gear cases engine block can be cracked by expanding freezing water.

if I was looking for a used boat I would steer clear of cored hulls rather they be cored with foam or balsa and only consider hulls with solid laminate. Check cockpit floors and transoms very carefully for soft spots and cracking. These areas were often made with plywood covered with fiberglass and subject to rot. If engines are more then 10 years old make sure they are running flawlessly and be prepared to do maintenance or repowering. 

The other tip is don't buy more boat then you absolutely need. There is always a tendency to buy a large boat thinking about taking family and friends. Reality is most times it will be used with far less people then you think. The bigger the boat the harder it is to launch and retrieve. The bigger the boat the more time and money is required for cleaning and maintenance. Also the bigger it is the bigger a vehicle is required to trailer it around and to get it in and out of the water.

Shadeux (Forum Supporter)
Shadeux (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/16/20 11:22 a.m.

Sweet answers, everyone! Just what I needed to hear.

We currently have use of a 16 or 18 foot aluminum pontoon boat with a 90 HP 4 stroke. To me it's dangerously overpowered - I've accidently hit the throttle a few times and I wish it had a dead man line on it.

Anyway, we go up and down the Silver River, which comes out of the Silver Springs State Park in Florida. It flows 400 to 500 million gallons a day (not a typo) and the current averages around 2 knots. With some wind and kayakers thrown in it's fun trying to keep this thing on station so my wife can shoot photos. I find it fun, anyway. laugh

I don't want anything to do with a plywood floor, so any kind of boat with that is out. Aluminum is probably lighter, which is a concern. Unless some amazing boat came along and prompted buying a pickup, our tow vehicle would be a Jeep Wrangler, which is rated a whopping 1000 lbs. The boat ramp is 5 miles away on flat pavement. I'm not concerned about towing it on a two lane road at 45 mph that far.

I'll research more now that I have some pointers. Thanks! yes

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
4/16/20 11:29 a.m.

Few thoughts....I have a 15' trihull with an 85HP Evinrude. Both are from 1973. It's a great little boat but most that old aren't in usable shape unless the floors, floor ribs, and transom have been done. I lucked up because this one was barn stored so the transom is good.  Old boats can quickly become a money trap if you don't know what you're looking at. If you go cheap on the boat, be prepared to walk away from it all if you need to. 

Cheap boats are unreliable until you make them so. If you buy cheap, let your missus follow you in the borrowed boat for more than a couple runs until you're sure you can trust the boat. Always take paddles, always take water, always take a cell phone, always tell someone where you are going and when you plan to be back. If you're in an area covered by one of the tow boat companies, buy the membership. All these things are a safety net that makes playing with cheap old boats a LOT safer. Also, when on thr river, always go upstream on the way out. worst case, you can drift home.

If you are going to run the river, you really want an aluminum flat bottomed boat with a spring loaded jack plate on the motor. This way when you hit the barely submerged log (and you will) the motor releases and pops up, thereby saving the lower unit on the motor. Skiff style boats like the Carolina Skiff mentioned earlier are another option but all the river rats I know run aluminum tunnel hulls because they are tougher and will damn near plane on wet sand they run so shallow. There's also less to rot on an aluminum hull. Almost all fiberglass built before 2000 has wood in the hull somewhere (or lots of foam like Whalers) that will soak and rot if left out in the rain and not properly cared for. 

Boats are all about the care they were given. Find a trustworthy local boat mechanic (good luck) that can check the motor for you. Research the particular motor for known problems. 

I kind of agree about small aluminum V-hulls being too tippy. I'm not fond of them, but I've never spent a ton of time on them either. OTOH, if that appeals to you, I have a friend that's selling all his toys due to illness, and he has one you can get cheap that I'm pretty sure is solid. He bought it a couple years back to rig for catfishing and never got around to it. Need seats re installed and some minor stuff, but he wouldn't have bought it if he didn't think it was a good one. 40HP motor, pretty well set up.If you're interested I can run down the specifics.

dxman92
dxman92 HalfDork
4/16/20 1:10 p.m.

I like simplicity. I'll stick with kayaks. laugh

nimblemotorsports
nimblemotorsports Reader
4/16/20 1:41 p.m.

I suggest getting a catamaran to deal with shallow water and stability and putting around quietly.

The Livingston cats are not too hard to find, and can be setup as console drive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Houvirvb_c

I have a 1961 Pacific Cat 19ft sailboat which make excellent power boats, good sized yet still light, they have a hard deck unlike the canvas "trampoline" style of newer cats.  But you will have a hard time to find one.   I had a guy watch my video and ask me if I wanted a third for free, tempting, but I have too much stuff already.

 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
4/16/20 1:54 p.m.

I've owned multiple small boats and a couple of Boston Whalers. I have learned my lesson about cheap boats the hard way.

Remember the statement about buying a Porsche? The cheapest one will always be the most expensive, or something like that. Doubly true for boats. 

Buy the best one of whatever you're looking for. 

Even though it appears that it's on a decent trailer, I wouldn't take that one for free. Literally. 

 

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
4/16/20 2:23 p.m.

In reply to TJL :

You're welcome up here anytime.  About kickers.  My buddy has a 9.9 on his ranger(not a bass boat) with a 125 main. Anyways for walleye sometimes he will backtroll against the chop. So you basically use throw the kicker in reverse so that you're barely moving backwards or even stainonsry against the wind. Kinda wild. But it works.  

Shadeux (Forum Supporter)
Shadeux (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/16/20 2:29 p.m.

In reply to dxman92 :

We've done that. The issue is when you're holding a $6000 camera and trying to kayak at the same time it can make you feel funny.

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón)
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/17/20 10:50 p.m.

Something nobody has mentioned yet:

The capacity of the boat includes you and all of your junk. You may need more boat than you think.

I've had several boats. I had a 14' Starcraft V-hull aluminum boat with a 25HP 2 stroke on it. It was great for two people and gear, or two adults and smaller kids, and could gently (slow walking speed) impact sunken tree stumps, rocks and the shoreline without worrying about damage. It was fairly wide for a 14' foot boat, so it was prett stable, and it only needed about 6 inches to float- if you tilted the engine up, it would float right up to shore for beaching, and the V-hull made for a drier and smoother ride if it was a bit choppy. The console and seating were better than in a jon boat with bench seats. The entire setup was LIGHT. The Forester (pictured) could tow this all day long. Moving it by hand, on the trailer, was a piece of cake. The rigging was simple, maintenance was easy, and the plastic fuel cell could be removed and filled by hand. Ten gallons went a long way- the engine was thrifty for a boat, and having a 2.5 gallon reserve can on the boat wasn't a chore. Launching the boat by yourself was also easy-peasy, even in the wind. The engine was electric start, but could be hand started with a pull cord if you accidentally left the fish finder on for a few weeks and forgot to check the charge before you launched. I *miss* this boat. Really.




Note: the 25 hp engine could move this light of a boat at a pretty good speed with one person in it, too. 

I currently have a 20' Key West, because we've got four or more people going on the boat, with gear in the intercostal waterway at times. It's a whole different level of commitment.

 

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón)
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/17/20 10:52 p.m.
Shadeux (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to dxman92 :

We've done that. The issue is when you're holding a $6000 camera and trying to kayak at the same time it can make you feel funny.

I'm a huge fan of kayaking and other paddlecraft as well. You need a Hobie pro angler. It's like having a comfortable jonboat you pedal with your feet, can stand up in and would take a serious wave to tip over. You'll fall off of it long before it tips.

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón)
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/17/20 11:00 p.m.

Also, it looks like the exact boat (or one very similar) is for sale in Florida.

It's the same year with a different engine and different NC registration number.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa HalfDork
4/17/20 11:03 p.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) :

I second all of this post.

Got my first boat maybe 8 years ago. A 12' Delhi.  Threw a 15HP on her and could cruise all day at a comfortable 24MPH or so.  Was small enough that I could throw it into the truck bed myself and haul it around without a trailer.

Smaller boats are almost criminally under rated for some reason

 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa HalfDork
4/17/20 11:06 p.m.

This one looks to be about 80% done, and I know those Orlando Clippers are great little boats.  I know a couple guys with a period correct outboard for sale as well.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/d/leesburg-1957-orlando-clipper-speedster/7108664880.html

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/18/20 11:32 a.m.

I've owned a few million.  Ok, actually about two dozen and currently have five.  Most of my boating ranges from state park "ponds" with electric only up to a large lake for which I currently have an 18' I/O bowrider and a 24' pontoon.

Please, don't listen to the "hole in the water that you throw money into."  The people who say that are not GRM types.  They're the type of people who take their Cadillac to the dealer to get washed because they use factory-approved soap.

For the ultimate cheap ride that is super simple to transport and use, I strongly recommend a plain old aluminum tiller (where you sit in the back and run the motor directly).  If you decide to add a gas outboard to the fleet, they are remarkably bulletproof, and operating it directly means there are no cables to fail.  Pull a cord to start, shift a mechanical lever to put it in gear, twist a mechanical handle for throttle.  If you're only ever doing calm water, look also at "john boats."  They are the dime-a-dozen flat bottom aluminum boats you probably see on the river all the time.  The flat bottom pays big dividends.  First, the flat bottom means they draft less depth for a given weight.  Second, they are much more stable for when your wife is standing up looking through a lens trying to get that perfect exposure on a Heron.  Third, flat bottom boats also tend to have a bit higher speeds for a given HP.  The downside is that they SUCK in rough water.  They slap on top of waves instead of cut through.

John boat:

2016 Alumacraft 1648 Jon Boat Green Power Boats Outboard Madera ...

Fiberglass is primarily a performance choice.  Aluminum and wood are very difficult materials to make into compound curves on two different planes.  Performance hulls need that freedom of compound curves that fiberglass provides.  There are other benefits and drawbacks to each, none of which really apply to "slow cruising with electric motor," other than the weight penalty of fiberglass.

I will say, the added weight of fiberglass will cause a need for more electric motor.  Don't skimp on battery storage or thrust.  It's not just being able to putt across the lake, it's getting back to the ramp when a breeze kicks up.  Dad's boat (15' fiberglass) has a 24 lb thrust electric on it we use for maneuvering while shallow fishing.  It takes very little breeze to render that motor completely useless.  Electric motor means the boat should be as light as possible.  Otherwise you'll be doing that thing where you are buying a larger motor and more batteries.  Also, if you lose power for some reason, the boat above is super simple to row.

So I agree with TJL, except that I recommend aluminum.  The Whalers and skiffs pictured above are fantastic boats, but you also see that they have 50 hp motors on them.  An electric motor will be more like 1/8th HP.  I agree with his assesment that boats like the one I pictured below are not the best for slow-touring beginners.  They are for people who need to go somewhere in a little chop, but they are very unstable.  It's not overly likely they will capsize, but one little re-adjustment from you while your wife is standing up will put her and her expensive camera in the water pretty easily.

aluminum boat deal for Sale in Burlington, MA - OfferUp

The other reason I am leaning toward aluminum for you is simplicity of care.  My aluminum v-hull sits in the field year round.  When I want to use it, I flip it on it's side, hose out the leaves, and throw it in the truck.  Also, many fiberglass boats are made by sandwiching plywood between layers of glass.  There are plenty that use a foam core, and even some that use layers and layers of solid fiberglass.  If you're not careful and purchase one with a plywood core, it's only a matter of time before the glass gets a hairline crack from flexing, setting down an anchor, or UV and the plywood becomes dirt.  My one aluminum boat is a 1958 model and despite hard use for 3-4 months a year, the only thing I've ever done to it was replace the wood in the transom where the motor hangs.  The gelcoat on fiberglass also is not terribly UV resistant and gets chalky.

If I were you, I'd be looking for a 14' aluminum flat bottom john boat. Wider is better. Put a 24 lb thrust electric, one big H8-style deep cycle battery, and oars with oar locks.  You'll use it this summer, then this fall when everyone is selling their motors, you'll find a great deal on a 6hp, 7.5hp, or 9.9hp Evinrude or Johnson and buy it.  I usually have some around, but right now all I have are two wasted 30hp versions.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/18/20 11:52 a.m.

Just re-read the one post.  2kt waters might preclude the use of an electric unless you go big.  There are some 36lb and up thrust motors, but it would probably limit you to upstream travel.  I wouldn't want to go downstream and then try to fight with an electric against a current, especially if you have a breeze.

Here are some things I'd be looking at:

https://ocala.craigslist.org/boa/d/candler-14ft-fiberglass-hull/7109279536.html  This one is a hot mess of mismatch; bigfoot long shaft motor on a small, shortshaft hull.  Yes, it's fiberglass and yes it's a V-hull, but notice how the hull is just a short vee and then flattens out.  It is more or less a flat bottom boat from a stability perspective.  Buy the package, sell the motor for $1000, but a 500 hp 9.9 johnson or evinrude.

https://ocala.craigslist.org/boa/d/fruitland-park-14-foot-jon-boat-reduced/7101823497.html  This one is a great boat for you.  I'm not a fan of the Tohatsu motor, but it will be fine.  I think it's crack-smoking price, but it is Florida and you have more boating there than I do in PA.

https://ocala.craigslist.org/boa/d/hernando-14-ft-jon-boat/7108996607.html  Bingo.  Scrub it up and shoot it with some rattle cans.  Already has an electric AND a bulletproof 1970s OMC on it.  Offer him $600 and settle on $750

https://ocala.craigslist.org/boa/d/ocklawaha-1983-fisher-marine-jon-boat/7108447502.html  If you want the console controls, here is a good one.  Take out the fishing platform to save weight.

https://ocala.craigslist.org/boa/d/crystal-river-2020-tracker-topper-15-ft/7106691533.html  This combo will give you 30 years of trouble free use.  It's basically brand new, and the price he's asking isn't much more than the outboard alone.

https://ocala.craigslist.org/boa/d/leesburg-18-monarch-johnson-25/7093657978.html  This one is much longer than you need, but it's a steal if it's in good shape.

https://ocala.craigslist.org/boa/d/floral-city-bass-hound/7092841005.html  I'm not a fan of plastic boats, but they're light and can't rot.  This one is tiny and might not be very stable, but talk about easy to transport and store.  That Yamaha motor is worth the asking price of the whole package.  Excellent outboards.

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