Looking for advice on which direction to go in for a track car

I know there are a lot of similar threads, but everyone's situation is different, so I hope this is OK.

In 2021 I bought a base model 981 Cayman as a midlife crisis / pandemic car. In 2022 I started tracking it, completely stock. No prior track experience. In 2023 I got a bit faster, and once the CPO expired, I made some changes. Got lucky finding some used parts, so the car now has front LCAs, Ohlins R&Ts, Apex SM-10 wheels with PS4S tires, Sebro rotors, Ferodo DS2500 pads. The coilovers went in this winter, so I'm looking forward to trying them out this year on track. I'll probably also upgrade to 200TW tires and grippier pads (DS1.11 maybe?) once those need to be replaced, probably after 1-2 track weekends this year. I'm now listed as an 'intermediate' driver in the groups I track with, and I'm aiming for 2-3 track days a month this year, to give a sense of where I am in this hobby.

I think I'm now pretty much at the sweet spot for a dual duty car, and I'm debating where to go from here. I think the logical next step would be seats / harness / roll bar. But I also think that will be the end of dailying this car. I expect bucket seats will be a pain in a parking lot, I expect my wife won't want to ride in the car any more. So this is one path, buy a commuter car and turn this into a track car (still street legal, I don't plan to also buy a truck / trailer, plus no space to store all that). Pros - it's a Cayman, it drives like magic, I have years to go before I get anywhere close to needing more out of the car. Cons - it's a Cayman, this was my "I can finally afford a Porsche" purchase, I know I'm driving timidly because putting this car into a wall is going to hurt a lot financially (yes I use insurance for every event, but still). So I've been looking at what else I could do. The choices that jump out are Miata (NC/ND?), or a GT86/GR86/BRZ. I haven't driven either, but I've seen both at the track. The 86 variants feel pretty close to my car in terms of pace in the novice / intermediate groups, I think the Miatas need a more experienced driver to be faster. I'm not really looking for straight line speed, there's always GT3s and Corvettes and M3s in the run group and I'm giving them point bys already. 

I'm going to see if I can get ride-alongs at the track this year, or maybe even drive some. But I'd appreciate any advice or pointers here. Particularly if someone has driven all these cars, and you have any feedback on how they compare in terms of driving feel, being easier to drive at the limit / catch slides vs. not, that kind of thing. If I went down this path, I'd look for a car where someone's already done the track prep, or plan to upgrade brakes / suspension / seats, so I'm more interested in what the car can be made to do, vs. how it feels stock.

Welcome to the party!

You're absolutely right that a street Cayman will be faster than either, but you can feel a lot better about tire-walling an 86 or MX-5.  The consumables will be a lot cheaper, too.

Right now, I think the NCs are in the sweet spot of depreciation vs reliability, and they're very capable on track.  1st Gen NDs can get a weak transmission, which, with normal 200 TW and still-streetable tires doesn't seem to be a problem, but can rear it's ugly head when you start actually racing on Hoosiers.  The 2nd gens (ND2s) seem to hold up better, a lot of that is probably due to the dual-mass flywheel which helps damp shocks. 

I'm not personally a fan of the Subaru part of the frisbee twins, as I've helped 3 or 4 people replace engines at this point.  I just can't recommend them for track use, which is a damn shame because the chassis is spectacular for it.   If I were going down that track, I'd plan on an engine every 4ish years of HPDE use, a lot less if doing time trials and with sticky rubber it seems like.

From my take, having instructed in a lot of them and driven them all, they're nearly equal in terms of drivability and lap times once you've done the same(ish) shocks/springs/sways.  Make sure you do the headers and tune on a BRZ, the stock torque dip on everything but the latest makes it feel like a tractor (to me).   Definitely try driving both if you can pull it off.

Where are you at and who are you tracking with?

Went through the same risk analysis recently and ended up in a c5. The base is only 350hp and pretty easy to get down under 3000lbs. One with good mechanics and dodgy cosmetics can be done in the low teens. I found the frs/ brz overpriced in my market. Miatas... a used spec miata is a pretty good deal. Maybe get a ride though. I have a build thread if you want to learn more about mine. 

Where are you at and who are you tracking with?

Just outside Portland OR. PIR is my "home" track, as in I can do a weekday event just by taking the day off and driving out in the morning. I've gone to Ridge and ORP for 2-day weekend events, they're a bit too long of a drive for single day events. Haven't driven any other tracks. Over here PCA, BMWCCA, and Audi Club collaborate and sometimes set up joint events, and that's the group I've mostly driven with. I've appreciated the high bar for safety and solo signoff, took me two years (or maybe I just suck). I'm really not looking at time trials or W2W at all. I know 'never say never', but that's not my end goal right now. Just track days, and feeling less worried about pushing myself a bit more.

Make sure you do the headers and tune on a BRZ, the stock torque dip on everything but the latest makes it feel like a tractor (to me).

I've read about the torque curve difference between the 2.0 and 2.4. I didn't know a tune / headers could fix that on the older version, thanks for that info. The 2.4 gets good reviews, but it's also 25-30K, whereas I'm seeing NCs in pretty decent shape for ... 10-15? That's why I wasn't really considering the current gen BRZ/GR86, same reason for the ND.

Good to know that these are pretty close in driving feel after the basic track mods. That's really the context that's difficult to get, because I can find Miata folks talking about Miatas, and same for the twins.

Miatas... a used spec miata is a pretty good deal.

I signed up for a Spec Miata FB group to see what that was like. Those are all fully caged / no passenger seat / etc. right? I probably have a truck + trailer somewhere in my future, but for now I'd really like to keep this to something I can drive 2 hours to the track. I didn't really find any HPDE / street legal cars there, they were all basically race cars.

Went through the same risk analysis recently and ended up in a c5.

I have not been looking at Corvettes at all, thanks for this tip. I'll do some reading. 

I did that analysis a few years ago and ended up in an old 90s Japanese hatchback. That's just me though. I've got now 12K in the whole thing so well in my comfort zone if I have to leave it at the track.

I did the miata route and loved the drive but hated the whole safety thing. I'm too tall with the proper safety gear to be well under the roll bar. 

Tires and brakes last a season (8-10 events) and it just keeps going on the track with no issues. I never miss a session and it'll run all day long. I've been working on the driver mod hard core and have been keeping up with all of the miata I run with.

If I didn't go that route, the alternate choice was C5 corvette. It has more speed and all of the parts out there to run hard. You see a lot of them here in the midwest at the track days. 

That's a good point I should add - I'm 5'6" so I won't have the tall people problems with the Miata :) 

If you already have access to a tow vehicle and trailer, stick to the street with your Cayman and buy an old race car for pennies on the dollar compared to what it would cost to build a car for the track. If you get something small like a Spec Racer Ford, you could likely tow it with something smaller than the average truck and a small utility trailer. So far I've found that it's less stress when I have a vehicle dedicated to track use, rather than having to find some compromise with a street and track use daily driver. 

If you already have access to a tow vehicle and trailer

Unfortunately, I don't. I also have a normal suburban house with a 2 car garage and my teenager's car stays on the street. Adding a truck / bigger SUV + trailer is going to complicate things quite a bit.

In reply to ZiggMeister :

In that case, I like your plan to get some ride alongs in various cars and see what you find that's really exciting to you. That will be a fun task to undertake, and you'll get to ask yourself what you get the most enjoyment out of- do you like small low powered underdog cars? Do you want V8 noises and power? That sort of thing..

After balling up a car (or two) on track, I've decided against the "hybrid street-and-track car" approach. A half cage, seats, and harnesses are NOT as safe as a full FIA cage with containment seats, harnesses, HANS, window/center nets, and fire suppression system.

Personally, I'd sell the Cayman (while it's still worth something!) and buy a used racecar ... even a 944 or Boxster, assuming you want to stick with Porsche. If you don't have a tow vehicle, you have two options: (1) rent a truck and trailer from UHaul; or (2) carefully drive the racecar to events. I've driven a caged car to race weekends. Yes, I wore a helmet/HANS and everything! It's not the end of the world. 

As a fallow 981 owner I just can't imagine that I could tolerate stepping down to a miata/brz but everyone has their own tolerances for that sort of thing.

A surprising number of people have two sets of seats and swap back and forth a few times throughout the year. If you're talking about being at the track basically every other weekend that's probably not really feasible though.

Honestly I'd drive the car as is for a season and see how you feel about it. Unless you feel like you need the safety equipment immediately.

A half cage, seats, and harnesses are NOT as safe as a full FIA cage with containment seats, harnesses, HANS, window/center nets, and fire suppression system.

I see your point. Does it matter how fast the car is? Right now I have a street car with stock seats / 3 point, so even buckets seats + 6 point + HANS will be a pretty big step forward in safety, I think.

Personally, I'd sell the Cayman (while it's still worth something!) 

Honestly, I put too much money into it last year to sell it already :) Probably in a few years. It's a joy to drive even just on the street, but I agree, there are more practical options for a daily + weekend car if I'm not tracking it any more.

I hadn't considered the U-Haul idea, that's an option. Basically gets added to the per-weekend costs.

As a fallow 981 owner I just can't imagine that I could tolerate stepping down to a miata/brz but everyone has their own tolerances for that sort of thing.

I think that's the crux of my question :) Have you driven a Miata / BRZ at the track? I haven't, I have no idea how it will feel compared to my Cayman.

A surprising number of people have two sets of seats and swap back and forth a few times throughout the year.

I've seen that. Honestly I don't see myself doing that. I have the 18-way power adjustable seats with the airbags, AFAIK they're quite heavy. Maybe this would be feasible if my stock seats were something simpler.

Honestly I'd drive the car as is for a season and see how you feel about it. Unless you feel like you need the safety equipment immediately.

For sure, this season is figuring out the coilovers. I'm mostly thinking ahead.

My answer is either keep driving what you have as is or if you feel the need to spend money, upgrade to a 982 (S trim or higher).  A frisbee will disappoint you compared to what you are used to.  Plus why have a car that is going to sit most of the time?  Focus on your driving skills, not the car itself.  Your current car sounds very capable, and the 982 is an incredible HPDE car even in stock form. 

ZiggMeister said:

As a fallow 981 owner I just can't imagine that I could tolerate stepping down to a miata/brz but everyone has their own tolerances for that sort of thing.

I think that's the crux of my question :) Have you driven a Miata / BRZ at the track? I haven't, I have no idea how it will feel compared to my Cayman.

For reference, I have a 94 spec miata that I use as a track rat, and I've driven a bunch of Caymans?  Caymen?  Cayapoda?    

The Cayman is just such an amazing car on the track that it's going to be really hard to replicate with anything other than a full-on race car.  

The biggest improvement you can make to a slower car is adding the full cage/seat/harness setup, that's easily worth 2 seconds per lap and really makes it feel race-car-y.. . BUT, I would highly recommend NOT doing that for a street car.   I'm pretty set in the opinion that safety is a system, and you either need to embrace the system the engineers designed the car around (3 pt belt, airbags, crumple zones), or go whole-hog the other way (cage, seat, harnesses, airbag removal, HANS all the time, etc.). 

That being said, there's a LOT of time to be made up in a car that you just really, really don't care too much about.  And driving something slower makes you really focus on carrying speed.   If you give up time in a corner in a Miata, you're just not getting it back...

ZiggMeister said:

Where are you at and who are you tracking with?

Just outside Portland OR. PIR is my "home" track, as in I can do a weekday event just by taking the day off and driving out in the morning. I've gone to Ridge and ORP for 2-day weekend events, they're a bit too long of a drive for single day events. Haven't driven any other tracks. Over here PCA, BMWCCA, and Audi Club collaborate and sometimes set up joint events, and that's the group I've mostly driven with. I've appreciated the high bar for safety and solo signoff, took me two years (or maybe I just suck). I'm really not looking at time trials or W2W at all. I know 'never say never', but that's not my end goal right now. Just track days, and feeling less worried about pushing myself a bit more.

Opposite side of the country, or I'd like you take my NA Miata for a spin on track over here.  If you're ever in New England area, though...

ZiggMeister said:

As a fallow 981 owner I just can't imagine that I could tolerate stepping down to a miata/brz but everyone has their own tolerances for that sort of thing.

I think that's the crux of my question :) Have you driven a Miata / BRZ at the track? I haven't, I have no idea how it will feel compared to my Cayman.

A surprising number of people have two sets of seats and swap back and forth a few times throughout the year.

I've seen that. Honestly I don't see myself doing that. I have the 18-way power adjustable seats with the airbags, AFAIK they're quite heavy. Maybe this would be feasible if my stock seats were something simpler.

Honestly I'd drive the car as is for a season and see how you feel about it. Unless you feel like you need the safety equipment immediately.

For sure, this season is figuring out the coilovers. I'm mostly thinking ahead.

A couple of friends of mine had a gr86 for about a year. Never made it on track but we autocrossed it quite a bit. It was fine, it did some things well, maybe even better than the Cayman, but...that car is gone now and none of us regret it so there's that.

I guess my follow up question would be "why?" Are you concerned about safety? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but to me your post reads like you're looking for the "next step" just because. You don't have to go further, there's nothing wrong with getting the car to a spot where it's decent at everything and just leaving it alone for a while.

I can't imagine the uhaul idea really makes sense especially for every other weekend use. Expensive, time consuming, and those trailers are not friendly to lowered cars. If I had to have access to a trailer I'd sooner buy a cheap truck and trailer and store it off site somewhere than deal with renting a truck and trailer every other weekend. Even if it costs a bit more in total it'll be fantastically less of a pain to live with. Maybe the uhaul method makes sense for once or twice a year, but not multiple times per month.

So as someone whose driven almost every model Porsche from 1962 to 2020 on track I will tell you that you most likely be disappointed in something else unless you change your mindset.

If you are going to change your mindset why not adjust it to the Cayman.

Here me out on this.

I instruct at PCA track days and I tell students all the time that there stock Porsche is safer in a crash then my fully caged Datsun that I vintage race. 

HPDEs/Track Days are not about driving 100% warp speed; they are a place to enjoy your car at a level you never could on a curvy road.

You should be concerned about having an off regardless of what you are driving.......even a fully caged car.

So with all that said I would do these following things before I made any huge change:

1. Keep driving the Cayman. In the places where the risk of hitting a tire wall is lower you can probe the limit a bit more. In the high risk places continue to leave a safety margin. I have people who I've been coaching for several years who never get the car past 85% of it's potential and they are having a blast. Caymans are beautifully balance and an absolute joy to drive.

2. Do a test day in a Spec Miata; the rental for that will be pretty cheap. You don't have to drive it on the limit. Even at 75% you will get and idea of whether or not you like them.

Tom1200 said:

So as someone whose driven almost every model Porsche from 1962 to 2020 on track I will tell you that you most likely be disappointed in something else unless you change your mindset.

If you are going to change your mindset why not adjust it to the Cayman.

Here me out on this.

I instruct at PCA track days and I tell students all the time that there stock Porsche is safer in a crash then my fully caged Datsun that I vintage race. 

HPDEs/Track Days are not about driving 100% warp speed; they are a place to enjoy your car at a level you never could on a curvy road.

You should be concerned about having an off regardless of what you are driving.......even a fully caged car.

So with all that said I would do these following things before I made any huge change:

1. Keep driving the Cayman. In the places where the risk of hitting a tire wall is lower you can probe the limit a bit more. In the high risk places continue to leave a safety margin. I have people who I've been coaching for several years who never get the car past 85% of it's potential and they are having a blast. Caymans are beautifully balance and an absolute joy to drive.

2. Do a test day in a Spec Miata; the rental for that will be pretty cheap. You don't have to drive it on the limit. Even at 75% you will get and idea of whether or not you like them.

Oh, and one other suggestion to go along with the Rental idea..

Keep the Cayman as is for track days, rent a spot in a Lemons/Champ team.   That'll up your skill level and fun, and will keep you from having to store another mechanical mouth.

Thanks for all the great feedback, I really appreciate it. Going to combine some comments from different folks here.

My answer is either keep driving what you have as is or if you feel the need to spend money, upgrade to a 982 (S trim or higher)

I guess my follow up question would be "why?" Are you concerned about safety? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but to me your post reads like you're looking for the "next step" just because.

What I'm mainly exploring is having less money in the car, so I'm less afraid to push myself (and the car), and trying to understand what I will give up in that trade-off. Right now I'm driving pretty cautiously. I've done about 20 track days in my 2 years, never spun the car, never had a wheel off, only had the TC kick in one time going over paint in the wet. Not that those are necessarily bad things, but I know I'm not driving anywhere close to the limit. I know the $$ I have in this car is a pretty big part of it. So going up to a 982 S is the opposite of what I want to do :) It'll be faster and more capable than my car, and also more expensive.

A second point is, by the end of last year, I was consistently sore by the end of the day, and taking tylenol to get to sleep. I'd like to think that's because I'm getting faster (and not just older), and being strapped in better will help, for comfort as well as feeling the car.

You don't have to go further, there's nothing wrong with getting the car to a spot where it's decent at everything and just leaving it alone for a while.

And that's definitely an option. Someone suggested putting in something like Recaro Sportsters to get better bolstering, but it would still work with the 3 point belts, and be easy to get in and out of.

A frisbee will disappoint you compared to what you are used to. 

For reference, I have a 94 spec miata that I use as a track rat, and I've driven a bunch of Caymans?  Caymen?  Cayapoda?    

The Cayman is just such an amazing car on the track that it's going to be really hard to replicate with anything other than a full-on race car.  

Never made it on track but we autocrossed it quite a bit. It was fine, it did some things well, maybe even better than the Cayman, but...that car is gone now and none of us regret it so there's that.

I would love to hear you all describe what's different, what I will miss. I know this is 100% subjective. I also know it's impossible for a $10K car to be the same as a $40k car.

Maybe the uhaul method makes sense for once or twice a year, but not multiple times per month.

Also a good point. 

Keep the Cayman as is for track days, rent a spot in a Lemons/Champ team.

I'm a long way away from that. I get nervous and make mistakes if someone is following me close behind in sim racing, where the consequences of crashing are just losing internet points. No way am I ready for that IRL. Plus I'm still using 100% of my focus just on line / heel-toe / brake release / etc., I'm not ready to add racecraft to that.

Keep driving the Cayman. In the places where the risk of hitting a tire wall is lower you can probe the limit a bit more.

This is a mindset shift I had not considered. Thanks, you've given me something to think about.

Do a test day in a Spec Miata

That's a great idea.

WonkoTheSane said:

I'm not personally a fan of the Subaru part of the frisbee twins, as I've helped 3 or 4 people replace engines at this point.  I just can't recommend them for track use, which is a damn shame because the chassis is spectacular for it.   If I were going down that track, I'd plan on an engine every 4ish years of HPDE use, a lot less if doing time trials and with sticky rubber it seems like.

I think you could mod the engine to almost certainly have a normal lifespan, but there is definitely some gambling involved in tracking a Toyobaru. You could be one of the lucky ones who beats on a totally stock engine forever and it never misses a beat, or be the second very unlucky one who puts all the survivability mods on the engine and it randomly lunches itself anyway while just cruising around...while the odds of rolling snake eyes are higher than with the Porsche, the stakes are a lot lower at least.

Edit: I've put 3 years of track use on mine now, last oil analysis looked excellent after the 2nd year. And it had 4 years of street driving on it before I bought it.

Edit2: I only did an autocross or two on the stock engine however, I started applying survivability mods early on, so mine never really had to handle any track use without them.

It really depends on how your mindset is. I started off driving a DC2 Integra, then an  M52 swapped 318ti and other various older slow-ish cars. I also drove a Spec Miata. After the pandemic hit, I just decided to drive my daily driver at the time (2017 JCW Mini).  What I enjoyed about the slower older cars is that I was ready to "leave them at the track" if something happened and of course, they were good learning tools for momentum driving (well, every car is a momentum car, but thats another topic). I enjoy the skillful act of taking corners fast so I didn't really care about the straightline speed that the JCW gave me (I know it only had 228 hp, but its a lot more than 120-140!). Personally, unless you're space constrained or something I don't think the whole daily track car thing works out. If you crash your daily, now you have even more trouble.  I'd go with renting a fun car if there are storage issues. I lived in an apartment for awhile so I dailied a crapbox and rented a Spec Miata. Renting is a pretty good value if you add up all the other costs of supporting your own vehicle.

You said you buy track insurance right?  So what are you worried about?  Accidents on track days are relatively uncommon and typically caused by the driver getting waaaay in over their head.  Push your comfort envelope, but reasonably.  Get more instruction.  

I've been down your path many times.  I see no reason for a dedicated track car in your situation. 

ZiggMeister said:

I would love to hear you all describe what's different, what I will miss. I know this is 100% subjective. I also know it's impossible for a $10K car to be the same as a $40k car.

It's subjective and hard to describe. I think to me it's a combination of the car being a bit special and the fact that it all pretty much just works and is pretty easy to drive while still rewarding to push harder.

Also I'm guessing you were just tossing numbers out but make sure you do the math because nothing discussed here is actually a $10k car, at least not by the time you get it to a point where it's as safe and reliable on track as the cayman is. Plus all the other upgrades that you'll probably inevitably do like you have on the cayman.