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bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
7/25/23 8:09 a.m.

If I was going to build a track car/daily again and wanted more speed than the Rio provides, I'd look long and hard at this: 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/832106378545701/

The T-gdi is good for 240whp long term with bolt ons. It's cheap enough that you can buy a lot of tires and brakes for that money and this generation the TCS can still be completely defeated.

Also, if you want a super cheap, easy to maintain track toy that is useful? Try a Sundae Cup car (Fit, rio, 2). Small, light, run a whole track weekend on a tank of fuel, tires last seasonS brakes last a couple seasons. You're not breaking any speed records but you will learn car control and maintaining speed.

rothwem
rothwem Reader
7/25/23 9:04 a.m.

I've had several E9x cars, they're pretty great.  However, even though I'm in a grassroots motorsports forum, I've never tracked or autocrossed an E9x car before.  With that said, I've got a lot of ownership mileage on them and they've been pretty great cars.  They have the typical BMW oil leaks, disintegrating bushings, and fast-wearing shocks, but they're overall pretty reliable.  You'll need a good BMW-specific scanning tool, there are "shadow codes" that won't throw a check engine light.  There is some freeware you can download off the internet (search for "BMW standard tools") and there's also some stuff you can pay for (BimmerGeeks Protool) that's a bit more user friendly.  Use this reader to look for codes related to the water pump--its really the only thing unique to the E9x that will strand you.  Its electric, and usually lasts ~100k miles or so.  When its dying, the fan stays on continuously, so if you test drive a car and the fan comes on at startup, make sure you look for the waterpump/thermostat codes.  When you're changing the water pump, swap out the hoses too, they're not long for the world by the time the waterpump is dying.  I also ham-fisted the radiator and cracked the radiator end-tank while changing hoses a couple years ago...so I basically replaced all of the cooling system in one go.   

As for the oil leaks, look at the intersection of the oil filter housing and the block--that's the most common leak and really the only one that you need to address fairly quickly, since it will leak onto the accessory belt and kill it.  The valve cover gasket will leak too, about every 80-100k, and the manual cars have oil pans that are steel and like to leak, though you really don't need to address the VCG or OPG immediatly.  FWIW, E46's leak in all of the same places.  

As far as selecting a car, go RWD only--the AWD models got a bit neutered with crummier front suspension, slower and heavier steering, steel subframe and a weird transmission mount that makes the manual transmission shifter feel bad.  Sport package gets you nicer seats and lower springs. All of the E90 M3 control arms swap into the regular RWD E90s, though it'll probably bump you out of your autocross class, not sure about the rules there.  The xenon headlights are dramatically better than the halogens, but they're just okay compared to modern LEDs.  

For the comparison of E46 to E90, I'd say that the E46 is more fun than the E90, but the E90 is a better car.  Its quieter, just as quick, gets better gas mileage, real people can fit in the back seats, its got a better stereo and the subframe mounts don't tear out.  It feels bigger than the E46 though, even if by modern standards its tiny (seriously, I can never find my car in a parking lot, its at stock height and is still shorter in length and height than a Corolla).  On the E90s for some reason they added some steering damping to the rack, I guess to make it feel more "high end", so the steering doesn't pull back to center as readily as on the E46s. Its still dramatically better than modern cars.  The AWD cars have an even more damped rack though, just another reason to avoid xDrive.  The E46 interior looks nicer when its in good shape, but the E90 interiors hold up better.  Neither hold up great, soft touch was super popular in the late 90's to 2010s and they peeeeeel.  

Anyways, that's my stream of conciousness about the E9x cars.  I had a 2006 model 325i sedan for 6 years with the sport package and manual, then an 2011 AWD/auto wagon, then an 2009 AWD/manual wagon, then my current 2009 RWD/auto wagon that I've had for 4 years.  I wish I had kept the sedan, it was my favorite of the four I've owned because of its options, but the lure of "practicality" was calling me.  It was silly though, the wagon hatch is tiny and while there are certain things that fit better in the back of the wagon, I'd get a better optioned sedan over a poorly optioned wagon any day of the week, especially with the (still) crazy car market.  I've focused a lot on the problems in my post, but I really enjoy my car.  I've flirted with the idea of getting rid of it, but I just don't know what else would have the same combination of fun, efficiency and interior room at a reasonable price.  

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
7/25/23 11:15 a.m.

S10 Mini truck.

Hear me out:

What homeowner doesn't have use or need for a truck?

It'll haul all your tires/tools/stuff to autocross and track days with ease.

Parts are cheap as dirt.

Junkyards are full of spare parts; ANY spare parts you might need.

Ample aftermarket support.

If it's fast: "it's doing pretty good for a truck!"

If it's slow: "it's doing pretty good for a truck!"

Plus, you help people move and you get free beer!

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke UltraDork
7/25/23 4:48 p.m.

As an 8th gen Civic Si sedan owner I feel personally attacked by your comments on the styling aesthetic. With 223,000 miles, a decent driver (me), and a set of Michelin pilot super sports that were a couple years old in stock size I was setting faster times than a lot of cars that should have been killing me at AutoX.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
7/26/23 6:37 a.m.

In reply to clutchsmoke :

I mean my first gennforte with decent tires and a crap driver did that lol

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/26/23 7:11 a.m.

I bought an 8th gen civic coupe, non SI, 5 speed with 1.8. A friend sold me the Koni sport shocks and progress rear bar from his SI. Even with the 140 horsepower engine it's a really good autocross car, and clicked off 53 laps at the Firm without a problem. My fastest lap was a 1.31, my first ever track day, on used 3 year old tires.

An 8th gen SI would have about 60 more horses, a limited slip, six speed, bigger brakes and still be in the same autocross class.

lnlds
lnlds Reader
7/26/23 8:15 a.m.

Import a 1998 altezza rs200z. Otherwise your rwd choices are already listed in the thread.

Mustang, 1,3 series, rx-8, NC Miata.

Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter)
Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/26/23 8:46 a.m.

I think it's mandatory that you pick one of these if you haven't decided by page 4 of the thread wink

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/is-there-a-car-out-there-that-nobody-likes/256916/page1/

 

P3PPY
P3PPY GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/26/23 8:55 a.m.

Perhaps due to the fat wallet of the PO, FWIW, my E85 Z4 has been reliable for me for the past six years, and IIRC there's a lot of overlap with it and the E46.

You sound like you want a BMW, which is a very reasonable answer to your problem. If I were you, I'd maybe start a new thread with "which BMW" as the title instead and you may get more focused answers. At the same time, go to google and type in:

site:grassrootsmotorsports.com e36 e46 128
 

or whatever other model you're considering. Chances are, someone else has been thinking of this, too. Happily GRM isn't a "did you use the search tool!?" forum, but what I'm saying is that there's still plenty of good stuff to be found in the "archives"

dyintorace
dyintorace GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/26/23 9:12 a.m.

We have a 2010 128i M-Sport 6-speed with ~90k miles. It has all the bolt ons you can throw at it (suspension, wheels, intake, headers, exhaust, 3 stage manifold upgrade). While I love the driving dynamics, it hasn't been cheap to maintain. The evaporator went out, the repair of which starts with "remove entire dash". It is currently leaking oil at both the valve cover gasket and oil pan gasket. Various other issues have been addressed over the ~4 years of ownership. I don't do my own wrenching so that factors into the ownership expense.

That said, I adore the car. It is a blast to drive, autocrosses well and looks great!

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/26/23 12:01 p.m.

In reply to VeganJoy :

What is your skill / interest level in working on a car?  I assume with your budget you have the tools, knowledge, and interest in working on them?   If not, I've got nothing.
 With <2% of cars having a clutch pedal, people are paying a real premium or assuming a great deal of risk.  
      Some cars with automatic's are very easy to convert to manual shift.  That is the transmission won't shift until you move the lever.  Still no clutch pedal but the modification also kicks up the line pressure to  shift instantly which helps keep the fluid from overheating.   
   I like cars that depreciate very quickly but have very solid mechanicals.  I also like to practically steal them because they don't run or have other issues which scare people.  
    The best bargains there are dad/ Grandpa's reward car. One he bought just before retirement.  Corvettes can be one of those. But Mercedes, Jaguars,   tend to be just such a car.  
     Jaguars scare everybody.  There was a 93 convertible. In beautiful shape that didn't run.  $800. The guy who bought it brought a fresh battery and a fuel pump fuse  and drove off in it 10 minutes after getting the tittle.  
      I've heard  similar stories about older Mercedes. Because shop labor is really high.  
   All cars work basically the same.  It doesn't matter if it's a 4-6-8-12 cylinder.  Spark at the right time and fuel and it should run. 

VeganJoy
VeganJoy New Reader
7/26/23 5:24 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Relatively low skill/experience as I haven't had a ton of cars but plenty of interest. Being able to work on the car easily and cheaply is a big plus for me

VeganJoy
VeganJoy New Reader
7/26/23 5:29 p.m.

I appreciate all the feedback in the thread! After thinking about it a lot I think it'd be silly for me to not be primarily considering a Civic Si, checks just about every box and it seems that wrong wheel drive isn't that big a problem in and of itself. And they're cheap enough that I can just get a cheap BMW later when I have space for another car, if I still desire RWD then. In the meantime I think I should prioritize the most reliable and affordable option.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/26/23 10:26 p.m.

In reply to VeganJoy :

Let me be up front.  I really know very little about Mercedes Benz.   Some who race them seem to have a lot of fun.  
   But Jaguars I know.   I like cheap cars. You can pick them up cheap.  Like simple? Then pick the 4.0 liter in line 6. DOHC.  4  valves per cylinder  optional supercharger 

light powerful fantastic handling and brakes.  Had optional 5 speed manual ( in England )  racing against V12 because its lighter it really depends on driver skill who is going to win.  But it's definitely cheaper to race. 
    There are a couple Choices. If you would be interested.  The XJS is the sporty looking one.  Kind of Mustang-ish look to it. 2 door  but it's heavier and likely much more expensive than the 4 door sedan. 
  The mechanics are the same just different body.   
        Extremely reliable. Simple to work on. Engines are cheap because they last forever. $400 will get you a solid working one.    But the 4 door sedan can often be purchased for $1000 or even less. 
     Parts are available in hundreds of junkyards for very cheap plus specialty places like Moss motors or Welsch,   There are places in England that have racing parts. But they tend to be expensive.  
wheels are Chevy bolt pattern so lots of choices there.  You can replace a lot of expensive parts like alternators etc with Chevy stuff. 
     

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/26/23 11:04 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

The daily driving part of a  newer 4.0 liter Jaguar Six is just short of 30 mpg driven gently.     
       It's comfortable and quiet. Very civilized.  Friends who drive them tell me once they catch up with neglected service it's as reliable as any Chevy  or Ford. 
    There is a free 600 page download on the Jaguar forum. 
      On the race tracks I go to they are too soft. But can be easily stiffened up.   The car just sticks to the track.  
 For race tracks hard on brakes. Wilwood has easily bolt on aftermarket brakes 

  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
7/26/23 11:09 p.m.

In reply to VeganJoy :

Don't dare get an Si they are terrible cars.


 

This forum may have aided me in buying an Si.  Honestly I can feel the weight at the front of the car when cornering.  Outside of the different feel to it, the car is quite amazing,  

amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter)
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
7/26/23 11:40 p.m.

You might want to take a look at the Cadillac ATS or ATSV too. Cool car. 

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
7/27/23 1:23 a.m.

I currently have an 08 128i convertible. I had an 05 S197 GT convertible before that. The BMW is objectively 'better', but the Mustang was more 'fun'. It has gotten to the point that I'm finally looking at getting rid of the BMW. If rear seats were less of a priority in my life, I'd take an NC Miata over either. Then again, I'm also obviously a 'convertible guy'.

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