This video is from his son the day after the crash. Lou is in the hospital, and Louis talks about his injuries, which given what happened, it's amazing they aren't worse.
This video is from his son the day after the crash. Lou is in the hospital, and Louis talks about his injuries, which given what happened, it's amazing they aren't worse.
Oh man, that's pretty wild. What happened? He mentioned hitting a wall at 140 a few times
In reply to jfryjfry :
A slower class car wasn't watching mirrors and went into him just before Canada Corner at Road America.
His cage builder deserves a bonus. I've also never seen a wheel tear the face/outer bead off like that and leave the barrel (mostly) intact. Lots of force going lots of different directions to cause that much damage. I'm glad it wasn't worse.
(Edit: He says that he is the builder.) At right around 2:30 into the video he says the cage is made from 4130 chromoly and the tube breaking was caused by a heat affected zone and he is going to investigate his welding technique. I guess I understand why NASCAR uses mild steel. I thought that the object was for the tube to fail by bending before the weld broke. I guess that also means before the tube also breaks clean off.
I'm guessing that they cut that bar to give more room for getting his feet out. Part of his injuries were to his lower legs/ankles.
In reply to racerfink :
That's the back right main roll bar hoop.
Ok, I got a chuckle at him asking Mark at AMT if there was a warranty on the spindle. Glad to hear Lou is doing ok that's a hard wreck.
theruleslawyer said:In reply to jfryjfry :
A slower class car wasn't watching mirrors and went into him just before Canada Corner at Road America.
I've been on both ends of the speed equation and while you need to be very heads up in the slower car; you also need to be mindful of the fact that the slower cars likely don't comprehend the closing speeds.
There's a 40-50 mph speed differential between these cars.
Interesting that the break appeared to be adjacent to two welds but across a continuous tube. Obvs the welding heat is what we're talking about and that applies to both tubes when joining them, but it wasn't e.g. broken right in a continuous HAZ next to the weld, but around a tube that had two HAZs on opposite sides. I guess once those crack you're "just" tearing the 0.095 "sheet" that connects the cracks. Makes me wonder about offsetting the joining tubes from one another (so you'd only get a HAZ on one portion of every circumference), but that in turn is the opposite of what you'd want to do structurally...
I'm also curious whether it was just a misspeak (and there's a lot going on for that guy right there), but it sounded like he referenced using CrMo for stiffness; I'm pretty firmly under the impression that the difference there is that CrMo, flaws notwithstanding, has greater ultimate strength and you can often use a thinner wall relative to DOM for weight savings in a lot of rulesets, but stiffness isn't something that really varies between steel alloys. So sayeth Carroll Smith, but I'm just referencing dusty old books, not speaking from anything I've verified.
Some interesting discussion on this random site I found: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/roll-cage-chromoly-questions/35355/page1/
In reply to Jesse Ransom :
I've always shook my head at using chrome-moly in amateur level cars; at best we are talking 40-50lbs for most cars. Given the extra care and feeding it's simply not worth it. Note Giglotti's cars are above the average SCCA car.
I've seen several catastrophic failures with chrome-moly simply because it wasn't done right. I always likened it to using magnesium wheels.
Tom1200 said:theruleslawyer said:In reply to jfryjfry :
A slower class car wasn't watching mirrors and went into him just before Canada Corner at Road America.
I've been on both ends of the speed equation and while you need to be very heads up in the slower car; you also need to be mindful of the fact that the slower cars likely don't comprehend the closing speeds.
There's a 40-50 mph speed differential between these cars.
When I was running my LS Miata at the Miata Reunion track event that was mostly populated by four cylinders, I had to lift and coast at turn 1 at Laguna Seca because anyone on the other side through to T2 had no idea I was coming. Closing speeds were fairly spectacular as I have 4x the power of a Spec Miata. It's no wonder there are massive accidents at Le Mans involving LMPs and GT cars.
Glad to hear the safety equipment worked pretty well here, and that it's being analyzed to improve the next versions.
Tom1200 said:In reply to Jesse Ransom :
I've always shook my head at using chrome-moly in amateur level cars; at best we are talking 40-50lbs for most cars. Given the extra care and feeding it's simply not worth it. Note Giglotti's cars are above the average SCCA car.
It was hard to hear with all the wind noise but he did mention it was initially built as a pro car.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
For people who haven't encountered this situation it is hard to fathom; A friend was driving a student around Spring Mountain in a brand new Z06 school car. I blew past at the start of the brake zone in the D-Sports racer; I continued to accelerate for another 150ft, braked and turned in before he even finished his braking.
In the Datsun I once had a car blow past going 40 mph faster just before the apex of turn 8 at Willow Springs; I saw the car coming and it was still sketchy.
IMSA and WEC drivers have my total respect.
I'm glad to hear that the driver was OK. It was a rough year at the Runoffs, there was also terrible incident in SM. No fatalities fortunately but a few really good drivers (and people) have a long road ahead.
It does reinforce the fact that even with good safety gear and good drivers, incidents do happen and can be life-changing. I've definitely been in my own head about my racing future lately; wondering how much commitment and risk tolerance I really have, and whether the juice is worth the squeeze. I'm enjoying some track days this winter until I figure things out.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:
It does reinforce the fact that even with good safety gear and good drivers, incidents do happen and can be life-changing. I've definitely been in my own head about my racing future lately; wondering how much commitment and risk tolerance I really have, and whether the juice is worth the squeeze. I'm enjoying some track days this winter until I figure things out.
I switched to vintage about 14 years ago because they raced at my home track twice a year but mostly because they encourage folks to err on the side of caution.
As drivers we have a lot more control than we want to admit; Keith's example above is how it should be done. Minimizing the risk should be the top priority.
Randy Pobts' talk of the Vortex of Danger is really good guide. There are some aspects I don't agree on but it does minimize the risk.
Additionally there are tracks I will not go to and some groups I won't run with.
You always have to ask yourself do I need to make this pass this second? In practice and qualifying the answer is no.
Mild steel > chromoly. Just my opinion but I've seen more CrMo/Tig failures vs mild steel DOM/Mig.
It sure looks to me like that tube took an impact. The lower end of that tube had (4) tubes welded right next to each other. Two still attached to the hoop above the break and two attached to to the hoop below the break.
Considering how much force gets transferred through the main hoop, maybe the main hoop should be doubled or larger heavy wall tubing.
lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) said:Mild steel > chromoly. Just my opinion but I've seen more CrMo/Tig failures vs mild steel DOM/Mig.
4130 definitely requires more attention to care and feeding than mild steel does. Still, based on the location of the breaks, I am not sure the heat from welding caused it. It looks to me more like an impact fracture.
A friend was running a vintage motorcycle event and they combined run groups with some more modern bikes. The big problem was the braking points - drum vs discs. While braking, another bike ran into the back of her going flat out. Fortunately everyone was able to limp away.
It still looks like it was chop-sawed to me. There's no damage to the tube, it's not crushed, and it's a clean cut on both ends.
When a friend of mine crashed his Jeg's chassis Super Comp Camaro, he got t-boned just behind the driver's seat by the Super Gas Mustang in the left hand lane. They cut the entire greenhouse portion of the cage away to get in and put a backboard on him so they could lift him out and life flight him.
I havn't seen how Lou's car ended up. It might have been driver's side to the wall, making extraction from the right side necessary.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Looking at your posted photo that tube was not cut during extraction. That tube failed because something struck it as the red arrow indicated. Main hoops are not designed to take a load in that direction, it bent first, and fractured at both ends because it was well welded. You cannot anticipate every load in every incorrect direction. I wonder more importantly what was able to strike that spot that hard, the end of an Armco?
That tube is bent to follow the shape of the window opening . It looks like it's one continuous piece coming up from the floor to the top. It would have to have a bend in it to make that run.
We may never know. Too bad the video wasn't shot in landscape mode. 
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