M3 Magazine project car for sale

Even the canoes think M3s are sexy!

Today's the big day!

I have to think we're in a bubble on the E30 M3s. When a salvage title example (admittedly a very nice one) goes for $21.9K plus, I'd have to think we're at (or are nearing) the peak.

I would expect a salvage title to kill the deal on a collectible car, but this proves otherwise. Good luck on the sale, but it doesn't look like you'll need any!

Amazing where these cars are going. Dave (WilberM3), bought his in high school back around 1997. It was still a newish BMW so I think he paid a whooping $15k. Amazing to think that all the years, miles (many while skipping class with him), and autoX runs later it is worth MORE than when he bought it! That's cool.

Honestly still wondering how it can be justified to lead with the tagline "All Original" when the car has been rebuilt. Sorry if it was thought that my comment was snippy or rude I'm genuinely wondering. I would like to see this explained.

In reply to nocones:

+1

All Original typically refers to parts, and specifically usually includes: Engine, transmission, suspension, body panels. It sounds like it had some body work and new paint, so I'd agree it is all original.

$25,700. I don't know what Tim was expecting but that seems pretty strong to me.

I have a friend with a gorgeous 65000 mile black/grey E30 M3. Original paint. Never any damage. No changes that can't be undone (Sport Evo bits, mostly), so could be made completely stock. I'm certainly curious what it would bring.

He was always a fanatic about it (he organized a bunch of the E30 M3 SIGFests) but I think its value has reached the point where he can't really enjoy it. Once you actively start thinking about appreciation, is it really a car anymore?

At the other end of the spectrum, I know someone who paid $3500 for a particularly ratty example with a bad title 12ish years ago. It was at a gas station 2 miles from my house and I passed. Who wanted to deal with an old S14? :) The buyer (another friend) built a track car out of it.

Yeah, I figured the title issue would make about a $5000 dent in the car's price. And nice E30 M3s are certainly getting valuable. That said, I am still a bit surprised how many bidders and watchers there were. We are working on a story on how to properly list and market your car and learned some great stuff from our partners at ebay on how to do just that, that we will be passing on to readers shortly. I hate to see this one go, and will kick myself, but I can't keep them all and just flat ran out of garage space. We also need to pick up a late model Mustang and a couple of other cars and needed to clear some salary cap as well, to do so.

To be honest, I think you being who you are had an affect on the price and the auction in general, thus tainting your story to some extent. Advertising it as a GRM project car probably helped it get the maximum amount of money.

Let's face it, most enthusiasts know who you are and the history is publically documented better than most cars. But mainly, there is the general assumption that your public profile in the enthusiast world would prevent you from misrepresenting a car.

I'm curious what the final price would have been if it had been posted by someone not easily associated with GRM and the car's GRM history not so readily known.

I know that you were working with eBay on this one and, while the auction itself was very well written, I was surprised at how you timed it.

I always set up my auctions to end on Saturday or Sunday night, and right on the hour. I figure that most people will be home and have access to their computer, and the ending time is easy to remember. Since I'm on the east coast, I usually shoot for 8 pm Eastern Time for big items that would be hard to ship (like a car), since I would expect something like that to go to a local buyer. For small stuff, I set them up for 11 pm Eastern (8 Pacific), the premise being that I wouldn't mind waiting up until 11 if it's something that I really want.

I try to make it as easy as possible for other people to give me their money.

Ian F wrote: To be honest, I think you being who you are had an affect on the price and the auction in general, thus tainting your story to some extent. Advertising it as a GRM project car probably helped it get the maximum amount of money.

Agreed. If it were me, buying from GRM almost completely negates the salvage title, because I know if you say it's been fixed properly, I am 100% certain you're being honest. Not so with random salvage cars from random buyers, where I would expect a discount to protect from possible hidden issues.

Either way, congrats on the sale!

I wonder if the GRM connection added to the value in the way celebrity ownership adds value (meaningless IMHO) or because the buyer knew the car was in good hands and is well sorted (valuable IMHO)?

The GRM connection goes a long way toward negating the salvage title, but it's still there. Owning it wouldn't bother me, but I would be constantly haunted by its effect when it comes time to try and sell the car. Unfortunately, it would dampen the ownership experience for me.

Ian F wrote: To be honest, I think you being who you are had an affect on the price and the auction in general, thus tainting your story to some extent. Advertising it as a GRM project car probably helped it get the maximum amount of money. Let's face it, most enthusiasts know who you are and the history is publically documented better than most cars. But mainly, there is the general assumption that your public profile in the enthusiast world would prevent you from misrepresenting a car. I'm curious what the final price would have been if it had been posted by someone not easily associated with GRM and the car's GRM history not so readily known.

Not sure I agree...

When I searched for Tim's car I found a '90 for sale in California. 136k miles in approximately the same condition (no title issue though). It ended a short time before Tim's... for $32,100!!!!

Kicking myself again for turning down a ratty one for $4000 20 years ago.

miatame wrote: All Original typically refers to parts, and specifically usually includes: Engine, transmission, suspension, body panels. It sounds like it had some body work and new paint, so I'd agree it is all original.

OK, I can clear up this difference thanks to my years of working the Mecum Spring Classic and chatting with those who buy, collect, sell, etc.

"Original" means OEM specifications or better. "Survivor" is the term for exactly how it left the factory.
If a car has been salvaged, but repaired with OEM parts to be finished to OEM quality or better, I see no issue with claiming "original" This car was both nicely bought and nicely sold. Congratulations Tim.

Wouldn't a salvage title cause issues with financing and insurance?

Wow, do I see a story opportunity here?
A story that clarifies salvage vs rebuilt.

yamaha wrote:

miatame wrote: All Original typically refers to parts, and specifically usually includes: Engine, transmission, suspension, body panels. It sounds like it had some body work and new paint, so I'd agree it is all original.

OK, I can clear up this difference thanks to my years of working the Mecum Spring Classic and chatting with those who buy, collect, sell, etc. "Original" means OEM specifications or better. "Survivor" is the term for exactly how it left the factory. If a car has been salvaged, but repaired with OEM parts to be finished to OEM quality or better, I see no issue with claiming "original" This car was both nicely bought and nicely sold. Congratulations Tim.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've always considered the term "original" to mean the actual parts and paint it originally came with new. My mistake. Thanks again.

I am glad this thread exists. It proves once and for all that these cars will never be in my price range, and that I should just forget about them. As my pay (hopefully) increases over the years, so will the value of these cars, always keeping them out of reach.

spitfirebill wrote: Wouldn't a salvage title cause issues with financing and insurance?

I bank with USAA and they don't seem to mind at all. When I bought my salvage title 540i/6 they would only let me finance 80% of the book value of the car but I bought it at almost half of the KBB retail value. They let me carry full coverage insurance to 100% of the value but then knocked about 17% of the value off of it when it was totaled again. One of the reasons I continue to bank with them. YMMV

bravenrace wrote:

yamaha wrote:

miatame wrote: All Original typically refers to parts, and specifically usually includes: Engine, transmission, suspension, body panels. It sounds like it had some body work and new paint, so I'd agree it is all original.

OK, I can clear up this difference thanks to my years of working the Mecum Spring Classic and chatting with those who buy, collect, sell, etc. "Original" means OEM specifications or better. "Survivor" is the term for exactly how it left the factory. If a car has been salvaged, but repaired with OEM parts to be finished to OEM quality or better, I see no issue with claiming "original" This car was both nicely bought and nicely sold. Congratulations Tim.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've always considered the term "original" to mean the actual parts and paint it originally came with new. My mistake. Thanks again.

I'm right there with you, I kind of had the same idea as you originally, but I understood where they were coming from with why there are "Original" and "Survivor" catagories.

In reply to yamaha:

It used to be that the term "survivor" really wasn't used, and back then I think "original" meant what I thought it did. But I think somewhere along the line, most likely when "survivor" started being used, the meaning of "original" changed. Or I could be wrong about that as well. In any case, I personally think they (who is they anyway?) would have been better off coming up with a new term for vehicles that are stock but do not have all their original parts and paint.

I had the same understanding of original as Bravenrace.