Major Crash at the Sun Valley Tour de Force

This weekend at the Sun Valley Tour de Force,  a Porsche suffered a mechanical failure and left the road while traveling close to 200mph. 

Both driver and passenger were hospitalized after the crash, which a post on Facebook speculates was due to a tire failure. 

In one of the videos, the Porsche is seen leaving the road after what appears to be a snap oversteer to the right, and in another, it is seen tumbling end over end after leaving the road. 

Sun Valley ‘no speed limit’ car event cut short after major crash. See witness videos (msn.com)

2 injured in Tour de Force car crash | Blaine County | mtexpress.com 

I participated in a hill climb once, the 2019 Virginia City Hill Climb in Nevada. It was great fun, but it didn't go as expected. I had delusions of grandeur, thinking that I'd take the hill "flat-out." Instead, I unexpectedly found that mortality had entered the chat. Driving the hill made me realize that I don't have what it takes be a serious driver, being unwilling to risk myself and my car. Glad I went but probably won't do any more hill climbs.

I  eventually achieved the goal of getting under 3:41 (an arbitrary time target since it's Nevada Route 341). At 2:13 in the video, note the tire marks spinning off into the rock wall on the right, left by a once-pretty NSX, a reminder that such events aren't all fun and games.

In reply to kb58 :

Great video.  In the episode of the Big Red Camaro running the same hill climb they talk a lot about the mortality issues of open road racing in the drivers meeting .  You can see the episode on Prime.

Wow. That would suck. Flat out and whoops I'm flying.

Seeing the one TikTok of the engine just sitting on the ground is wild.

Like, it just looks like someone picked up and engine and left it at the side of the road.

In reply to Colin Wood :

Yeah, there's not a whole lot of Porsche left there...

Yes, great video. I once upon a time re-enacted the Bonanza episodes where Pa Ben Cartwright would send Little Joe over to Virginia City to fetch the doctor or sheriff by driving the modern route with my lowered in the front and raked and jacked up in the rear Volvo 164.

It would only take Little Joe a few hours to travel what must have been a few days ride from the shores of Lake Tahoe, down the mountain to Carson City and back up what must have eventually become that road up to Virginia City and then back to the Ponderosa.

The road up to Virginia City was wild at barely over legal 55 mph speeds. 

Edit: Sorry, this is a reply to KB58.

In reply to kb58 :

Yep. I spectated at one and decided I liked life enough and would never be competitive. Rocks and trees are much harder than sand traps and tire walls.

Much like I won't run Roebling because of the berms that launch cars into the trees. 

That was a big crash. Looked like it may have been a tire failure. 

Yeah, no turn, just poof. 

I know that road. I had no idea they were doing this event there. Makes sense. Lots of money in Sun Valley. 

We were working the Silver State Classic the year the Ferrari Testarossa crashed to due a tire failure. 

A couple of years later we had a local professional driver killed and a couple of years after that a friend's tube frame Porsche went off at near top speed. He was lucky to survive and ended up with permanent injuries. Suffice to say I won't be doing any open road events.

With that said I admit I find them interesting and there is a definite buzz around these events.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I considered running Midlana in the Silver State Classic, but decided against it for several reasons:

- Mostly full-throttle for 90 miles makes a 14 gallon fuel tank likely insufficient.

- I've gone 150 mph in it, and it's gear-limited to about 160 mph. That means long and sustained high rpm. Additionally, the buffeting at that speed (on a very un-aero Lotus Seven shape) is no joke. Any unexpected wind could make for an interesting and unplanned ride.

- It's mostly straight-line, and while it wouldn't be boring, exactly, it seems a bit like putting a brick on the gas pedal with the rear wheels off the ground. Then you just sit there trying to keep it on the dotted line, praying that the engine and tires hold up. For me, the risks to the car made it a pass. Oh, and yes I know it's not about top speed, that the participants pick a target average speed and see how close they get, but who wants to go slow out there...

In reply to Tom1200 :

They are definitely attention-getters. Tour de Force requires the vehicles to pass a tech inspection, but I am unsure of rules/requirements, etc. The Porsche did not appear to be caged, however...

Recon1342 said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

They are definitely attention-getters. Tour de Force requires the vehicles to pass a tech inspection, but I am unsure of rules/requirements, etc. The Porsche did not appear to be caged, however...

The one person I know who died at the Silver State Classic was a former class winner at the 24hrs of Daytona. Air got.under the car and it took off.

The friend who had a huge crash was a very very competent driver; he had a tire issue. Note the tires were new.

Regarding high speed tire issues...

Street tire speed rating requirements are done using machines that load the tire against a drum at a given speed, for a prescribed duration.  That is way different then running them at very high speed with an undulating road surface, which is varying the load accordingly.

I don't think flat out for 90 continuous miles on a narrow road in summer is something I'd trust any pneumatic tire to do, regardless of rating. 

It does sound like the event is for a good cause, I hope everyone comes out ok. The post crash pictures are hard to look at.

Looking at some of the video, it appears they were running top down in a convertible 911 with no rollover protection?  I'm astounded that any organization would allow a 'top speed' event participant to run under those conditions.

In reply to accordionfolder :

The closed section for Tour de Force is only 3.2 miles. Silver State classic is the long drive, IIRC.

In reply to Rodan :

The information on the website is very thin in regards to safety requirements, rules, etc. There is always a waiting list and the buy-in this year was $3500 for a spot.  Sure, it's for charity, but the overall impression most of the state has is that it's just rich folks doing rich folk things. I frequently drive that stretch of road on my way to camping/mountain biking spots and I would not drive it at full throttle without a spec'd cage; there are way too many places to leave the road in a really bad way.

In reply to Recon1342 :

Ah, 3.2 miles is more reasonable, but a long time do be flat to the floor still if you're dealing with the heat and friction involved at ~200mph. 

Regarding top speed and tires, I'd be curious what the testing regime is for a tire rated at 200 mph - how long do they run it there? Additionally, having an engine running flat-out at full load for 20-30 minutes isn't something that I was financially capable of shrugging off should it go sideways. I suspect that most participants have deep enough pockets that if their car breaks,  it's towed to their garage where "it's taken care of." The Virginia City event is 5.2 miles and 21 turns, so top speed is maybe 150 for the faster cars but it's not sustained. There, I was more concerned about spinning off than blowing up the engine or having a tire go out, but regardless, it sank in that I was a (slow) fish out of water in a rich man's sport.

kb58 said:

Regarding top speed and tires, I'd be curious what the testing regime is for a tire rated at 200 mph - how long do they run it there?

There is no speed rating of 200 for DOT or E-marked street tires, per se.  The highest is (186) which means greater than 186.

Here's the test (US is same): https://simpletire.com/learn/tire-buying-guides/tire-speed-rating

TL;DR...ten minutes under load at the desired speed is the survival metric.

Racing tires are not rated...ask the manufacturer for suitability

Andy Hollis said:

kb58 said:

Regarding top speed and tires, I'd be curious what the testing regime is for a tire rated at 200 mph - how long do they run it there?

There is no speed rating of 200 for DOT or E-marked street tires, per se.  The highest is (186) which means greater than 186.

Here's the test (US is same): https://simpletire.com/learn/tire-buying-guides/tire-speed-rating

TL;DR...ten minutes under load at the desired speed is the survival metric.

Racing tires are not rated...ask the manufacturer for suitability

Given your tire knowledge, is there a tire that could do ~190 for 3.2 miles? Or 90 miles for the Silver State? I would assume (nothing more than that) that most (all?) participates are running street tires, but that seems ill advised.

Assuming this was the car passing the starting line, not only a convertible with no rollover but no helmet!

dyintorace said:

Andy Hollis said:

Given your tire knowledge, is there a tire that could do ~190 for 3.2 miles? Or 90 miles for the Silver State? I would assume (nothing more than that) that most (all?) participates are running street tires, but that seems ill advised.

Look for tires that are OE on supercars.

Michelin Sport Cup 2 and 2R and 2 (240)

Pirelli PZero (PZ4)

Bridgestone Potenza Race

All have (Y) ratings for >186.

3 miles?  Sure.

90 minutes?  90mph or more and it's within what the tire is tested at (10 minutes).

Frankly, I'd think something like a Ring lap in a supercar would be a lot harder on tires.  10 minutes of turning/braking snot-beating followed by a long top-speed pull up the Dottinger Hohe through Tiergarten and into the compression.

I can't speak for that road but the pavement on the Silver State is rather coarse and I think that contributes to the issue.

Ironically as a young man I would have ridden the Isle Of Man...............these days I wouldn't do an open road race. 

One of these years at the Silver State we had a hunter confront one of the control points..........rather than get shot the radio operator let him through.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Asphalt covered with chip seal. Maybe about 2 grit if we compare it to sandpaper...