Mazda/Ford BG platform.

I've owned most of the commonly suggested cars for at least a few months (Miata, E30, SW20, etc.) and it's time to sample something different. I've always been intrigued by the BG cars, but I don't have any direct experience.

Give me the pros and cons, their strengths and weaknesses, etc.

I've been looking specifically at the BP powered cars and primarily the Protege but I'm interested in information about all of the body styles and drivetrains.

I've done some reading on some of the Escort/Protege dedicated forums but it's sometimes hard to get unbiased information.

I plan on using it as a DD and rallycross.

Opinions? Other cars in this segment I should consider?

The most recent relevant thread that comes to mind is this one: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/nissan-cheap-fun-vs-fazda-cheap-fun/13181/page1/ "Nissan Cheap Fun vs. Fazda Cheap Fun "

This one offers some options too: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/ford-escort-wagon-potential/16167/page1/

I've had three junker BG escorts (all hatches: two with the 1.9, one GT with the BP), one BG 323 (sohc b6), and just got a ZX-2 (also a BG variant). In my experience they are cheap to get into, easy to work on (if not too rusty), and make good daily drivers. The aftermarket isn't great for them, but don't let that deter you. Off the shelf "High end" struts are what I've found to be especially lacking.

I rallycrossed my EGT with some success but it was used up (rusty chassis+wiped crank keyway) and I ended up parting/scrapping it.

I just bought Entropyman's ZX-2 that he had previously run in STS and I will be using it for PF class rallycross next season.

The 1.9 engine isn't very fun in stock form, but if you're willing to boost it, it's apparently not very difficult. You're already familiar with the Mazda engines from the miata; it's really pretty much exactly the same.

The ZX-2 feels significantly tighter than the older hatchbacks I had and was made through '03 so OEM parts are more available than the older ones.

You should look into the B13 Sentra too, especially if you don't need a hatch or wagon.

In reply to cghstang:

Question for you about the B13 Sentra without getting too far off topic from my own post, haha:

I've heard/read that the B13 have pretty short suspension travel. Have you experienced this rallycrossing yours (assuming that's you in your avatar)? Our club's rallycrosses are really rough and not dirt lots or anything like that. Typically they're overgrown fields that are mowed the day before.

How does the suspension travel and geometry compare BG vs. B13?

I had similar concerns about the suspension travel on the B13. In my limited experience (6 rallycross events in the sentra with completely stock suspension), it really wasn't an issue unless there were major ruts.

This was an overgrown field that was mowed a couple of weeks before and had prominent plow rows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HdqYnXgbho

The BG does have more travel though stock vs. stock. The EGT I rallycrossed with was on eibach lowereing springs. No, they didn't help anything.

^I have parts off his old car on mine.

Pros: Stupidly simple to work on, parts are ridiculously cheap, you can find ANYTHING in the junkyard.

Moving on to how they drive? They're great. VERY nimble, and they feel way faster than the 127hp would suggest. Partly because of weight, gearing, and just the OMGWEEEEEEEE factor. They love being beat on. Mine seens 7k rpms everytime i drive it, and i feel no apprehension seeing that needle zing towards rev limiter.

Cons: Aftermarket is a BIT weak, but really not that bad once you get involved in some of the communities and figure out where they're getting parts. There's all kinds of neat and cheap tricks to get around some "issues." The brakes are NOT spectacular stock. Not much surface area on the rotors. That said, i've now got stainless lines, EBC Greens, and brembo blanks on my car, and it's much better. The pedal feels strange to me coming from the Celica, but i put that down to differences between cars, rather than anything wrong. The transmissions aren't REAL strong, but adequate for stock w/ bolt ons.

As for cars you're looking at?

The Protege (like you said), the Escort GT, the Escort LX-E, and the Tracer LT-S. They're all the same car. Get the Escort if you want 2 doors, choose your poison on the others depending which you think looks better. (If you like REALLY funky, look for a maroon on red LTS, it's BALLER.)

Suspension options are out there. The 3rd gen ZX2 S/R struts will fit a 2nd gen without much modification, and are cheap. $200 shipped from Jegs, and they're a HUGE step up from stock. Corksport carries some goodies for the car, and strut braces can be found on the cheap. (I paid $30 for a f/r set.) Suspension techniques makes swaybars for the car, and there's often group buys for other stuff. Delrin bushings, delrin endlinks, etc...

Power? Intake, header, and exhaust will wake it up nicely, and it's a great sounding motor (which you probably already know, being a Miata motor.). B-code FC RX7 VAF will give you a nice little boost in higher end power, as well. Run two exhaust cams in the head (exhintake mod) for another nice boost.

All i've done to mine currently was bump the timing, and even with a full interior, it's miles faster than my 5sfe-powered Celica, which is gutted to the extreme. It feels like a mid 15s car. (Will verify in spring.)

Anything else?

I would compare this car VERY favorable to a 1g Neon, Nissan SE-R, Civic, etc...

I like mine so much that i've considered dumping the Celica for another one, since the girlfriend drives mine, but she slapped me when i mentioned it, so i have to keep the Celica and just steal the EGT whenever i have the chance.

Oh yeah... the 2nd gear in these things is REALLY long. It's rather strange the first few times you drive it, you feel like you'll NEVER get the 1-2 upshift down. I imagine that would be good for rallycross/autox, though. On the flip side, 3rd gear seems pretty short, so you get that cool sport-bike-like sound on a hard redline 2-3 shift. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA---BWAAAAAAAA

Sorry if i'm a little rabid. I got mine for $700, and once the new tranny was in it, it's been the best cheap car purchase i've made in a LONG time.

Oh by the way.... you WOULD be looking for one of these now, after i offered to trade you mine for your MR2 like a year ago.

Haha, I know! I was interested then too, the logistics just didn't work out. Plus that MR2 sale aided a down payment on a house, so that worked out well too.

Carson wrote: Haha, I know! I was interested then too, the logistics just didn't work out. Plus that MR2 sale aided a down payment on a house, so that worked out well too.

Pick up an EGT Iris Edition for cheap, then trade it to me for my MX6.

What is an Iris Edition? I did a google search but got results that I shouldn't be looking at at work. Iris is a popular name for escorts, apparently.

I'm guessing its a paint scheme/interior combo. I've never heard of it.

Carson wrote: What is an Iris Edition? I did a google search but got results that I shouldn't be looking at at work. Iris is a popular name for escorts, apparently.

It's purple (iris) with matching wheels and interior piping.

They're fairly rare, and hard to find. There's one that runs around by me, but it's been molested like crazy, has mismatching body panels and such. And there's two in Lousville Pull A Part.

I had a really clean picture of one, but i can't find it now. It's not a real girly purple, it's actually really nice.

There's also the "Caymens" which are a special green, with matching piping and wheels.

93celicaGT2 wrote: There's also the "Caymens" which are a special green, with matching piping and wheels.

Like jstein77's old car?

Carson wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: There's also the "Caymens" which are a special green, with matching piping and wheels.

Like jstein77's old car?

Can't see the pic, but probably. Caymens aren't as rare.

I've got the escort forums searching for a clean Iris picture, hopefully they'll find it. I'm mad that i lost my picture. It looked showroom new.

Here's a bad pic of one.

Anyways, to put things in perspective, GRM covered this car briefly in "The Dirty Dozen," and the only CON that they had for it was "Automatic Seat Belts."

93celicaGT2 wrote: .. the only CON that they had for it was "Automatic Seat Belts."

Which can be remedied with a swap to Canadian belts and trim bits via feoa.net, not to be confused with Timbits.

cghstang wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: .. the only CON that they had for it was "Automatic Seat Belts."

Which can be remedied with a swap to Canadian belts and trim bits via feoa.net, not to be confused with Timbits.

Yup!

I want to do that, too.... but the girlfriend just wants me to fix her automatic belts. FML.

Here you go. It's indeed a very pretty purple.

93celicaGT2 wrote: .. the only CON that they had for it was "Automatic Seat Belts."

Which issue is that? I looked for it last night. Is it June 2008? I can't seem to find this particular issue.

That's the exact picture i was looking for.... for the life of me i couldn't find it.

Anyways, here's the article:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/dirty-dozen/

I'm tempted by the idea of a BG platform 323 with a 1.8 swap & the bolt-on's listed above. They still have that restrictive flapper door style MAF, right? What sort of power can you get with bolt-ons including the exhaust cam swap, a full exhaust, and a well tuned MS + hot wire MAF pull down?

(I'm tempted by lots of ideas, an economical hatch is one of them, and I don't think 323's get a second glance from thieves like a Civic does)

How rare are the yellow EGTs? I have only seen 2 i think, one that was about a foot shorter than normal due to being hit in the back someone was using for a pizza car, then one other one.

pres589 wrote: I'm tempted by the idea of a BG platform 323 with a 1.8 swap & the bolt-on's listed above. They still have that restrictive flapper door style MAF, right? What sort of power can you get with bolt-ons including the exhaust cam swap, a full exhaust, and a well tuned MS + hot wire MAF pull down? (I'm tempted by lots of ideas, an economical hatch is one of them, and I don't think 323's get a second glance from thieves like a Civic does)

Stock, the BG platform is indeed equipped with a flapper style meter (VAM).

Generally speaking from a Miata standpoint with the same 1.8 mill, 10-20 HP, roughly, can be gained with a well tuned MS (no air meter required), good header and free-flow intake on a stock engine. Granted, the intake manifold is of a different design and the FWD variants are equipped with VICS (a set of plates in the intake manny that opens a resonance chamber at a specific RPM), so a touch more may stand to be gained.

Travis_K wrote: How rare are the yellow EGTs? I have only seen 2 i think, one that was about a foot shorter than normal due to being hit in the back someone was using for a pizza car, then one other one.

If it was a REAL original yellow car, chances are that they were actually an RMR car.

As in Rod Millen. They had a different grill, rear window visor thingy, and some other goodies.

I deliver pizzas in my first escort from 62k miles all the way to 195k miles. Had some trouble with the 1.9 litre head toward the end, bi otherwise reliable. 37 mpg delivering pizzas around town. I bought my next escort, a 1997 with the 2.0 and wagon body for 900 with 122k on it. It now has 193k, and still runs great, and gets over 30mpg. Rust is getting this car. My wife drives a 1994 wagon I bought rust free that lived in Florida and had some front sheet metal damage for 800, and I got a front clip on craigslist for 200, and the colors matched. I've delivered pizzas for over 200k miles in escorts, and I love them. I've owned escorts for over ten years, and I'm always on the lookout for another. Balljoints and tierod ends are weekpoints, the wear out pretty fast. Rust is a killer on wagons, and eats the rest up as well. Skip second gear for about 3 more mpg around town. My uncle, two of my friends and one wife of a friend have all bought escorts on my recomendation, and all are happy they did. A gt would be nice, but after 1997 with the 2.0y wagon feels much faster than our 1994 wagon with the 1.9. Similar optioned car as well. Engines are non interferance, I beleive in bp and I know in 1.9/2.0 case. Heater fans lose speeds, and the replacement resistor is only 18 bucks at the ford dealer, as of last fall at least.

Joey

Oh, and the electic seatbelts on 91-96 escorts don't like delivering pizzas. At the base of the b pillar is a little hatch, and inside is an Allen scew that can be used to crank back the belt. Then disconect the wire inside to remove power to the retractor. Then just hold the belt out if the way when you climb in and out of the car. Anyone who say this is a pain is a whiner. I've done this 30 times a night with pizzas in my hand and it's not a big deal.

Joey