Megasquirt vs. Ancient Ford ECU... Help Me Pick

In reply to bluej :

It's all about balancing your compromises.  Sometimes it's easy to do that, sometimes it's really freaking hard.  And on an 80's era car, it's not as if the system is massively complex that it can't be redone.

We used to run Microsquirts on the FSAE cars- I think we had a mechanical failure on one board due to vibration, but otherwise they seemed pretty tough.  That's a possibility but I'd rather stick with one of the two setups I already have.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

I remember you saying that, but the microsquirt boards are produced differently now (smd), and should be more robust, just fyi.

Stock ECU plus Moates Quarterhorse tuning.

I've seen it make over 700 hp in a turbocharged Supercoupe.

In reply to Will :

My understanding is that the Quarterhorse loses your tune if power from the battery is cut- that's definitely not acceptable in a rally car.

In reply to bluej :

That's interesting, I'll keep that option in mind- especially if I find another use for the MS3 in the meantime.  I should be able to load my tune from the MS3 straight to the Microsquirt so I won't lose any progress from that end.

MS3Pro is another option.  A little spendy, but nicer connectors, they say you can mount it in the engine bay, etc.  And it's got a crapload of features and built in datalogging too.  

rslifkin said:

MS3Pro is another option.  A little spendy, but nicer connectors, they say you can mount it in the engine bay, etc.  And it's got a crapload of features and built in datalogging too.  

Want to point out that data logging and a good way to process and look at that data is really important when you are calibrating systems.  The easier it is to log, review, and make required changes, the more likely that you will put the effort into make the calibration robust to a wider and wider environment.  

The MS3 has a SD card slot for saving log files, it depends on which version came with the parts car as to what additional options it might have:

http://www.msextra.com/product-range/traditional-megasquirt/megasquirt-3/

Megasquirt-3 is the top of the range ECU in the ‘traditional’ Megasquirt range. It has 8 fuel and 8 logic spark outputs offering full sequential fuel and spark for hi-z injectors and logic level coil-on-plug coils (or high-current coils with suitable external ignition module.) This supports full-sequential on a V8 or semi-sequential with wasted spark on a V12. Spark and fuel are fully trim-able per channel and injector timing is mappable for optimum power (~1% gain available) Six relay or solenoid outputs for nitrous, boost, fan control, shift light, tachometer outputs etc. Switch inputs for launch, idle-up, nitrous-in etc. and additional sensor inputs for external MAP sensors or measuring pre/post intercooler etc. On-board SD-card datalogging allows fast datalogging without the need for a laptop while logging. Built-in USB-serial adapter eases connection to modern laptops.

CAN communication ability to interface with extender boards for more inputs and outputs on the more complex installs – e.g. multiple EGT, multiple widebands, speed sensors etc. Calibration to adapt to OEM temperature sensors is straightforward and numerous wideband calibrations are supported.

Initial setup is aided by test modes for the fuel and spark and by built-in tooth loggers to help diagnose incoming tach signals.

In most configurations, the MS3 + MS3X +V357 can be used by setting a few configuration jumpers inside the box. It requires less customization than other traditional Megasquirt options which are far more DIY intensive.

The Megasquirt-3 (MS3) is ready to support a wide variety of engines out of the box, with the ability to control anything with one to eight cylinders with sequential fuel injection and sequential ‘coil on plug’ ignition, a V12 with semi-sequential fuel and wasted spark ignition, or a four rotor Wankel with separate leading and trailing ignition outputs. Over 50 different ignition modes are supported, from mainstream applications like the GM LS1, Ford Zetec, Bosch Motronic, and Chrysler Gen III Hemis to unusual modes like Renix Jeeps and the Suzuki Swift GTI. The software includes many ‘race’ type features, two stages of progressive nitrous, water injection, closed loop boost control etc. Vehicle speed sensing, logging of EGT (with external hardware.)

The case measures:
Length (end plate to end plate, not including flange): 161 mm
Length (end plate to end plate, including flanges): 182 mm
Width: 105 mm
Height: 67mm

Megasquirt-3 Hardware features:

• Freescale MC9S12X 16 bit, 50 MHz asymmetrical dual core processor
• 8 saturated injector drivers
• 8 logic level ignition outputs
• 5 medium current (3 amp) general purpose outputs
• All unused injector and ignition outputs can be used as spare on/off or other outputs.
• 1 stepper H-bridge driver
• Camshaft and crankshaft inputs – supports VR, Hall effect, and optical input
• 12 volt tach output
• Fuel pump output
• 8 analog inputs (5 dedicated sensor inputs, 3 spare/general purpose)
• 4 spare digital on/off inputs
• 1 spare digital frequency inputs
• RS232, USB 2.0, and CAN communication
• Onboard SD card slot for internal data logging
• Temperature range: -40 to +85 degrees C

Optional hardware features:

• 2 knock sensor inputs
• Real time clock

Megasquirt-3 Software features:

• Supports speed density, alpha-N (TPS based), or MAF based fuel and spark tables
• 1 microsecond injector pulse width resolution
• Tables for nonlinear injector behavior at small pulse widths
• Allows blending multiple load types, including specialized mode for independent throttle bodies
• Supports a wide variety of OEM cam and crank position sensors
• Individual cylinder trim tables for fuel and ignition
• Accelerator pump or model based acceleration enrichment
• Closed or open loop idle speed control
• Closed or open loop boost control with two separate wastegate outputs, and gear or speed based tuning options
• On/off or closed loop continuously variable valve timing (VVT) control – supports up to 4 channels
• On/off or progressive nitrous control
• Traction control by VSS or RPM
• Rally anti-lag with rotational idle
• Wankel rotary support – can run up to 4 rotor engines with separate leading and trailing spark tables
• Staged injection
• Table switching
• 16 x 16 fuel and spark tables – can be reconfigured to function as 30 x 16 or 16 x 30 by switching tables based on RPM or load
• 2 or 3 step rev limiter (launch control) with no-lift shifting
• Wideband AFR target tables
• Flex fuel sensor input for easy switching between gasoline and E85 – can automatically change fuel, ignition, and boost maps based on ethanol content of gasoline
• Knock control with adjustable crank angle windowing can adjust sensitivity based on RPM or which cylinder is firing
• Allows repurposing injector or ignition outputs as general purpose outputs.
• Real time barometric correction (external sensor required)
• A/C and cooling fan control with idle compensation
• Safety shutdown based on AFR or EGT input
• Sequential shift cut and air shifter control
• Diagnostics to detect and ignore failing sensors – can even automatically switch from speed density to alpha-N in the event of a MAP sensor failure

Manuals are available here

I had MS3 with a bang bang style antilag (full throttle plate bypass air using electric solenoids, etc. ) running coils off a gm truck and 120lb injectors (E85), HX35 turbo, etc. full sequential on my Ford 2.3 (SVO). One of the main reasons I did it is that it basically eliminated the TFI from the equation, which besides the aux shaft I think is the major failure point on the EEC-IV/ Ford 2.3. I commuted a hundred miles a day to school and back that way for a couple years. Keep the ms3. 

Jcamper

Okay, I admit to keeping a spare TFI module in the car, but damn they are easy to change in under 5 minutes. 

Quarterhorse comes with a battery socket on the circuit board for a button cell, and that preserves the tune memory in case the car's KAM circuit gets depowered. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to Will :

My understanding is that the Quarterhorse loses your tune if power from the battery is cut- that's definitely not acceptable in a rally car.

 

My SC is tuned with Quarter Horse. My battery has died and I've never had a problem with the tune.

You will never find an aftermarket electronic part as robust as what the OE supplies.  I don't care what it says on the website.

You will never be able to create as much horsepower with a stock ECU that you can with a tuneable aftermarket box.

You pick.

Streetwiseguy said:

You will never find an aftermarket electronic part as robust as what the OE supplies.  I don't care what it says on the website.

 

You will never be able to create as much horsepower with a stock ECU that you can with a tuneable aftermarket box.

 

You pick.

Aa Alfa was alluding to, that calculus changes when the aftermarket options are brand new and the OE options are all 20+ years old (and used!) at best.

In reply to bluej :

I’d more say pre 1990. Lots of changes happened between then and even 1992 when I started. For sure, computers in the OBDII era are quite good. 

Streetwiseguy said:

You will never find an aftermarket electronic part as robust as what the OE supplies.  I don't care what it says on the website.

 

You will never be able to create as much horsepower with a stock ECU that you can with a tuneable aftermarket box.

 

You pick.

You’re wrong in this case, but you’re allowed to be.