I really like the mid size late 60s early 70s Mercedes sedans and coupes and think they would make a nice daily driver. I would want more hp though and ideally a V8 with a stick shift.
Seems like small block Fords are the most common swap, probably because they're narrow and the oil pan is in about the right place. Maybe an LS type motor with a GTO oil pan would work out well? I also think I've seen that the R107 SLs have basically the same front suspension so maybe a motor from one of those would swap in easily. Hooking it up to a stick could be a hassle though.
Any good brake upgrades using later/bigger Mercedes parts? How strong is the diff? Any LSD options?
Basically I'd like something with similar performance to my old E39 BMW 540 but more classic looks. I realize the handling and refinement are unlikely to be as good but that's ok. 300ish hp should be enough I think.
Anyone got any experience with these cars, links to good builds, suggestions?
thanks
I love the w114/w115 and looked at doing a resto-mod about 10 years ago. There wasn't a lot go to one back then...and some of it was in German.
If you have the fabrication abilities the the sky is the limit re: LS swaps. IIRC the engine bay is tight, which makes swapping a 3.8/4.5/5.0 mercedes from the R107 difficult.
If your target 300hp I'd really consider putting a turbo (or Kompressor?) on the m110 engine and using one of the existing 5 speed gearboxes. The m110 is a DOHC with ample torque and a DIY friendly compression ratio of 9:1...and it's just a pretty engine. Don't forget that the w114 is about 500 lbs lighter than the E39 as well, depending on trim level.
When you get ready, hope you start a build thread...
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
V10 TDI or nothing
I'm kidding. Sorta.
That's a big nope - no diesels thanks
CrustyRedXpress said:
I love the w114/w115 and looked at doing a resto-mod about 10 years ago. There wasn't a lot go to one back then...and some of it was in German.
If you have the fabrication abilities the the sky is the limit re: LS swaps. IIRC the engine bay is tight, which makes swapping a 3.8/4.5/5.0 mercedes from the R107 difficult.
If your target 300hp I'd really consider putting a turbo (or Kompressor?) on the m110 engine and using one of the existing 5 speed gearboxes. The m110 is a DOHC with ample torque and a DIY friendly compression ratio of 9:1...and it's just a pretty engine. Don't forget that the w114 is about 500 lbs lighter than the E39 as well, depending on trim level.
When you get ready, hope you start a build thread...
I could be open to the idea of a 6 although I prefer V8s. What's needed to put an M110 into a W114/5? Are Mercedes 5 speeds a bit truck like? Good to know they're a fair bit lighter than an E39 - wasn't expecting that
Racingsnake said:
I really like the mid size late 60s early 70s Mercedes sedans and coupes and think they would make a nice daily driver. I would want more hp though and ideally a V8 with a stick shift.
Seems like small block Fords are the most common swap, probably because they're narrow and the oil pan is in about the right place. Maybe an LS type motor with a GTO oil pan would work out well? I also think I've seen that the R107 SLs have basically the same front suspension so maybe a motor from one of those would swap in easily. Hooking it up to a stick could be a hassle though.
Any good brake upgrades using later/bigger Mercedes parts? How strong is the diff? Any LSD options?
Basically I'd like something with similar performance to my old E39 BMW 540 but more classic looks. I realize the handling and refinement are unlikely to be as good but that's ok. 300ish hp should be enough I think.
Anyone got any experience with these cars, links to good builds, suggestions?
thanks
You must've been at the show this past weekend. That particular car (71 250c) in that picture belongs to Ray and it has a Mercedes m104 i6 engine swapped into it from a 1996 C36 AMG. He used a r107 560sl subrframe. There was also a w108 with a LS2 two cars over from this one. Those my folks lol.
For brakes I'd look at late 126 and 107 cars. LSD will have to come from a 6.9 w116 or 4.5/6.3 w108 which can handle decent power.
If you wanted to keep it Mercedes powered I'd go with a m103 or m104. They're smooth and have enough power for that chassis. If you wanted more power maybe a v8 m117 or even a m113 (the 5.0 will be over 300hp). I do know the m113 bolts up to the 717.667 6 speed manual transmission that came behind the v6 cars without mods. That transmission also fits the v12's from that era. The 2000+ v6 (m272), v8 (m113+), and v12's (m137 and m275) all have the same bellhousing pattern until a certain point.
Anyway, do it!
Racingsnake said:
CrustyRedXpress said:
I love the w114/w115 and looked at doing a resto-mod about 10 years ago. There wasn't a lot go to one back then...and some of it was in German.
If you have the fabrication abilities the the sky is the limit re: LS swaps. IIRC the engine bay is tight, which makes swapping a 3.8/4.5/5.0 mercedes from the R107 difficult.
If your target 300hp I'd really consider putting a turbo (or Kompressor?) on the m110 engine and using one of the existing 5 speed gearboxes. The m110 is a DOHC with ample torque and a DIY friendly compression ratio of 9:1...and it's just a pretty engine. Don't forget that the w114 is about 500 lbs lighter than the E39 as well, depending on trim level.
When you get ready, hope you start a build thread...
I could be open to the idea of a 6 although I prefer V8s. What's needed to put an M110 into a W114/5? Are Mercedes 5 speeds a bit truck like? Good to know they're a fair bit lighter than an E39 - wasn't expecting that
The 5 speeds aren't the best as far as feel lol. I have one in my m104 190e. The w114/115 are little harder to swap because they didn't come with any v8 engines like some w108's did.
BAMF
HalfDork
5/17/22 4:10 p.m.
Racingsnake said:
I could be open to the idea of a 6 although I prefer V8s. What's needed to put an M110 into a W114/5? Are Mercedes 5 speeds a bit truck like? Good to know they're a fair bit lighter than an E39 - wasn't expecting that
The LL8 GM Atlas inline 6 produces 291 hp and 277 lb⋅ft. They are on there tall side, but may fit where another I6 had already been. GRM already posted about a wiki for swapping the LL8 into other vehicles including manual transmission options.
Racingsnake said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
V10 TDI or nothing
I'm kidding. Sorta.
That's a big nope - no diesels thanks
Blasphemy, I say.
Good. Save them all for me. 600hp, 1000lb-ft, and 40 mpg is my happy place.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I'm gonna need you to start a thread about this 600hp 1000 torques 40mpg diesel lol
yupididit said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I'm gonna need you to start a thread about this 600hp 1000 torques 40mpg diesel lol
In before the 25 MPG 7.3 Powerstroke guys get here.
Back on topic - if it was mine I would try to at least keep it MB power. Never gonna win any drag races, so not a huge value to me in swapping in a V8. I would be tempted to look at the M104 I6. Latest and greatest I6, keep it in the family.
In reply to Racingsnake :
The m110 came in the 280 and 280CE spec w114, and also the 280SL spec of the r107 (the 5 speed would likely come from a euro R107 280SL donor car).
I guess it just depends on where your interests like. If it's welding and metal fab then a newer swap is probably best. If it's force injection, tuning, and engine building then mixing OE mercedes parts with some modern forced injection would be neat. YMMV.
buzzboy
SuperDork
5/17/22 11:05 p.m.
A friend of mine likes to put newer V8s into older Benes.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ0EWzMFm7C/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Also on this forum is a gorgeous manual V8 W108
Classic Mercedes-Benz are the finest mechanical conveyances ever contrived by human hands. I would leave it stock.
You must've been at the show this past weekend. That particular car (71 250c) in that picture belongs to Ray and it has a Mercedes m104 i6 engine swapped into it from a 1996 C36 AMG. He used a r107 560sl subrframe. There was also a w108 with a LS2 two cars over from this one. Those my folks lol.
For brakes I'd look at late 126 and 107 cars. LSD will have to come from a 6.9 w116 or 4.5/6.3 w108 which can handle decent power.
If you wanted to keep it Mercedes powered I'd go with a m103 or m104. They're smooth and have enough power for that chassis. If you wanted more power maybe a v8 m117 or even a m113 (the 5.0 will be over 300hp). I do know the m113 bolts up to the 717.667 6 speed manual transmission that came behind the v6 cars without mods. That transmission also fits the v12's from that era. The 2000+ v6 (m272), v8 (m113), and v12's (m137 and m275) all have the same bellhousing pattern until a certain point.
I was hoping you'd chime in on this. Yeah, I was at the show Sunday, not as many classics as I would have liked but definitely some cool stuff. That 250C was probably my car of the show. Any chance of putting me in touch with Ray? What's the reason for the subframe swap on it - better brakes, engine mounts for the later motor or what? Are the 126 and 107 brakes a bolt on deal? Do you need spindles or just the brakes? Sounds like the LSDs are probably fairly rare. I'm not set on any particular motor, it would be cool to keep it Mercedes but if there's an easier/better swap I'm fine with that too. Interesting about the 6 speeds, how do they shift compared to the 5 speeds?
The LL8 GM Atlas inline 6 produces 291 hp and 277 lb⋅ft. They are on there tall side, but may fit where another I6 had already been. GRM already posted about a wiki for swapping the LL8 into other vehicles including manual transmission options.
I think the Atlas is going to be too big to be an easy swap. I'm not against a 6 but if it I've got to do much fabrication I'd rather have a V8
CrustyRedXpress said:
In reply to Racingsnake :
The m110 came in the 280 and 280CE spec w114, and also the 280SL spec of the r107 (the 5 speed would likely come from a euro R107 280SL donor car).
I guess it just depends on where your interests like. If it's welding and metal fab then a newer swap is probably best. If it's force injection, tuning, and engine building then mixing OE mercedes parts with some modern forced injection would be neat. YMMV.
Thanks, so the basic engine should be a bolt in deal then. Hopping one of them up could be an interesting way to go.
More general questions - how much difference is there between the 4 and 6 cylinder cars or between gas and diesel? Just wondering if there's an advantage to starting with any particular car. Looks like the best chance of getting a stick shift car that will already have a clutch pedal is to get a 4 cyl or diesel. Any disadvantages to starting with one of these instead of a 6? Are the brakes and suspension different at all? How about the rear ends?
Racingsnake said:
You must've been at the show this past weekend. That particular car (71 250c) in that picture belongs to Ray and it has a Mercedes m104 i6 engine swapped into it from a 1996 C36 AMG. He used a r107 560sl subrframe. There was also a w108 with a LS2 two cars over from this one. Those my folks lol.
For brakes I'd look at late 126 and 107 cars. LSD will have to come from a 6.9 w116 or 4.5/6.3 w108 which can handle decent power.
If you wanted to keep it Mercedes powered I'd go with a m103 or m104. They're smooth and have enough power for that chassis. If you wanted more power maybe a v8 m117 or even a m113 (the 5.0 will be over 300hp). I do know the m113 bolts up to the 717.667 6 speed manual transmission that came behind the v6 cars without mods. That transmission also fits the v12's from that era. The 2000+ v6 (m272), v8 (m113), and v12's (m137 and m275) all have the same bellhousing pattern until a certain point.
I was hoping you'd chime in on this. Yeah, I was at the show Sunday, not as many classics as I would have liked but definitely some cool stuff. That 250C was probably my car of the show. Any chance of putting me in touch with Ray? What's the reason for the subframe swap on it - better brakes, engine mounts for the later motor or what? Are the 126 and 107 brakes a bolt on deal? Do you need spindles or just the brakes? Sounds like the LSDs are probably fairly rare. I'm not set on any particular motor, it would be cool to keep it Mercedes but if there's an easier/better swap I'm fine with that too. Interesting about the 6 speeds, how do they shift compared to the 5 speeds?
I'll have to find his IG.
I'm not super knowledgeable about the w114/w115. I'm pretty sure the only significant difference is if it has a 6cyl then it's a w114, anything else is a w115.
The 5.6 107 subframe is probably better because all those reasons you just listed. The w114/115/123 never came with a v8 so I think they're a bit less suitable for a swap than the other chassis.
As far as brakes for r107 vs w126, they're different. The post-1986 r107 front end stuff is more similar to the w124 than anything else. If I were to do this swap into a w114 with a 560 r107 subframe then I'd take the entire spindle and brake setup with me. I wouldn't be able to tell you what exactly is bolt on or not. There so many damn Mercedes chassis by the mid 80s that its hard to remember what can go into to what.
Certainly start with a car that's already manual simply because those parts can be a PITA to find individually. And an i6 would probably be the easiest. They take to boost super well. Or the M102 lol
In regards to the LSD, I'm looking lol. I want one for my w108. It'll be getting a m113 or m137 + 6spd.
More people are getting interested in swapping and playing with vintage Benz. It used to just be old white men keeping them up with purist intent but it seems us young folk are taking over lol.
Lookup Garage764, they do swaps into this chassis. Believe they're out of Turkey.
Goodluck!
buzzboy
SuperDork
5/18/22 8:43 a.m.
I've found lots of good info on this sit regarding Benz Diffs
https://mbturbo.com/how-to-change-final-drive-w115/
In reply to yupididit :
Thanks, looks like I need to read up on Mercedes brakes and suspension then lol.
What W108 do you have?
yupididit said:
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I'm gonna need you to start a thread about this 600hp 1000 torques 40mpg diesel lol
Umm... I've owned several. Only reason the current one only gets 24mpg is that it's in an 8000-lb dually.
W210 400hp/730tq 38mpg
This one gets 36mpg and puts 550hp to the wheels with plenty of room for more.
OM606 folks are consistently getting 700hp and 35-40 mpg depending on the rest of the car.
1.9 TDI VW folks are modding to 450-1000hp and getting 45-50 mpg.
But diesel misconceptions are fine with me, so I won't provide too many examples. I might convince some people and ruin the market 
As far as a V8 in a W114, I don't recall them having particularly narrow engine bays. The battery and brake booster are the main hurdles
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I know a good buddy of mine in NC with a om606 pushing in the mid-500's he can push it to the 700's but the rest of the car doesn't like it. He cannot get over 32mpg with his modded injector pump in 500's. Can he get it to 40mpg yes but not using the same setup that's getting him those power numbers. His is a w124 with a bmw manual transmission.
40mpg OR 700hp. But not 700hp AND 40mpg at the same time lol. Even down in the 400's it'll be pretty hard. Those modded 606's are gnarly and will flatten your eyeballs
