modern car woes. looking for suggestions

A recent assignment in my Technical/Business writing class had me and another person writing a proposal. Our idea was to propose a new model lineup of car. (what you proposed was totally open, this proposal is assuming we already work within a car company.)

Little did we know, now we have to back up our proposal with a follow-up showing evidence that people actually want what we proposed. Our idea was for the company in which we worked for to begin making small, lightweight, sporty cars.

Specifically,cars that aren't loaded with 9,000,000,000,000 gadgets and coolers and things people dont need. Cars that were possibly available in a "no frills" package, i.e: no A/C, no P/S, manual windows. We even went as far as to say that the company should offer multiple drivetrains in a single chassis (yeah we know it wont ever happen).

The problem is. No one wants these lightweight, cheap, fun and attainable cars lol. In our proposal we stated that the market for such vehicles is a possibility and worth looking into.

Well this is where i need help, all i can find is news articles about how drivers are "now more interested in gadget filled vehicles". Or better yet the multiple i have found about people wanting more "grandpa cars so they can make them DONK!"

So, if anyone has seen any reporting of people wanting cars such as i have described, let me hear about it! if not, ill just write my follow-up about how wrong me and my team was...

I want one.... what about an online poll(s) showing peoples interest in said vehicles?

the only thing like that coming soon is the R-Spec Genni.

IIRC there was an article about the Gen. coupe and how the striped out R-spec is prefered with racers, FWIW

ooooh online poll sounds like a good idea. How might i go about doing this? Another problem is that im obviously going to get the biased response i want from a car forum. Unless said forum is some form of DONK'S are us...

Ill be checking out the Gen. article, where is this located?

Try and check with alfadriver, he works for a Big 3 Company, he might be able to fill you in on what some focus groups have said that they wanted in future cars.

Personally, as much as I detest gadgetry, people want a minimum of power options. PS,PW,A/C,PDL and ipod/MP3 etc.

Also, first car that I thought of when I read your post: Suzuki SX4.....then Honda Fit.

M/T said: If a large-displacement V-6 seems superfluous, the Genesis Coupe's 2.0-liter turbo four will seem just plain super. With 210 horsepower and 223 pound-feet channeled through a six-speed manual (a five-speed automatic is optional), the 2.0T should hit 60 in about 6.0 seconds and the quarter mile in roughly 14.6 ticks at 95 mph., yet still dispense an estimated 21/30 mpg. And given the $22,750 starting price, the 2.0T delivers bang for the buck that will make such front-drive pocket-rockets as the VW GTI and Honda Civic Si take notice. For those in search of more street cred, there's the $27,500 2.0T Track, replete with a limited slip, Brembos, and 19-inch wheels, as well as the $24,500 R-Spec, a decontented Track trim for tuners and autocrossers.

M/T article page 4

think how many people are interested in the Tata Nano. it is the ultimate in no frills (or enjoyment) vehicles.
the market is there, but it isn't profitable. People won't pay 30k on a base car. 10k cars are not profitable enough to sustain a company in the long haul.

All I need is A/C and power brakes. I've driven EG Civics for years and they suit my needs perfectly.

I don't mind rolling up my windows with a crank.

I like a light, fuel-efficient car. I don't necessarily need my econobox to act like a near-luxury car (I'll take better fuel efficiency over a ton of options).

That's me, though.

I am a minimalist kinda guy. To a point. I do want a lightweight, agile, fun to drive car for daily driving.

These days everyone (including me) wants ABS, a/c, power steering, power locks, power windows and a radio. If you standardize it including it in the car, I don't think the costs are that much higher than having to tool up production to support manual vs. power.

Plus, why wouldn't you get those options considering you wouldn't be able to resell the car if it didn't have it.

A safe chassis with air bags is nice to have for a DD considering all the idiots on the road in SUVs that don't know how to drive and are too busy playing with their in car entertainment centers.

Defeatable traction control is nice and the development costs are already paid for so no point in taking that away now.

What doesn't matter to me is leather or super trick sun roofs or 20" rims. I don't care about I-drive like crap complicating the driving experience.

I don't care about having multiple settings for an auto tranny or throttle response. Auto tranny is for the wife and sissies that can't drive. I don't understand why you would need to vary throttle response but I suspect it could find a home on a car that is already over the top and seriously expensive.

Give me a good shifting, well geared, manual trans with an overdrive 6th gear for cruising at 80ish MPH thank you. 5 speed manuals are dead.

For daily driving duties give me something like the Mazda3 or WRX or a reliable Golf or a modern CRX or even a Miata or the new Genesis Coupe. A Smart Car would even work if it were cheap enough so that you could also afford a full size, 4 seat car when you need more space. Would be great to have a rear drive version of those with AWD as an option but that drivetrain adds cost.

The only way I would want something like you described is for a car I was buying with the intent of using as a track car. problem is the resale value if I ever needed to sell it.

The idea is small, lightweight, sporty cars.

Could one of the assumptions be that during the time it takes to go from design idea to finished product, gas could likely be back at $4.

When/if that happens (as has been seen before) people gravitate back to high mpg being very important (or at least the appearence of high mpg.) In that space of decent mpg, you want to differenciate your offering by making it appeal to a more spirited driving experience.

The offering would be mpg with style and flair. You role models should be the CRX, MR2, even a sort of Honda Insight 2dr. Other inspirations would be a Miata with a 6th gear that turn 1500 rpm at 60 mph.

Consider an integrated trailer option that increases functionality when needed but decreases drag and excess weight when not needed. A Miata with an optional trailer.

I'll take one. Only need A/C and AM/FM. You can keep all the other electronic crap that starts with P, and all the bags, buttons and wizzers. I got ABS and traction control built into my feet. The only problems I ever have with cars is the accessories. The drive lines hold up fine, but all the other junk fails long before the basic car is used up. I don't buy cars worrying about resale, usually by the time I get rid of them they are headed to the junk yard. Have hauled probably half of them there myself. Give me a good car with a great engine and tranny and I will buy it. As a matter of fact, I would have already bought a G8 if I could get the big engine and the manual trans with out all the other crap that comes with the package. I don't want leather, or a sunroof or $5000.00 worth of wheels and dress up junk. Used to be you could order a car with any single option available. Now you have to get the trim package with all the other junk. I would pay extra to be able to build a car option by option.

Thanks guys! I love the input. More specifically in the original proposal we did have stipulations about it having to meet 20 mpg city/ 35mpg highway. Something like that anyway... its not on this computer, but we DID say that the options should be available piece by piece rather than trim levels to suit more people.

    The "no frills" idea is more like a Value Pricing package, no options resulting in less cost (and weight for those who are looking for that), the model line we proposed was to also have two available engines.

Keep it coming guys! Your making my paper look good! lol

gamby wrote: All I need is A/C and power brakes. I don't mind rolling up my windows with a crank.

If you're selling in the south, you've got to have a/c. I also prefer abs for driving in the rain, although 2 out of my 5 most recent cars haven't had it.

Cars I own or are big fans of: Miata's, S2000's, Elise's. Why? Because they're designed for enthusiasts by enthusiasts and aren't filled with crap that doesn't add to the driving experience. I'm also a big fan of BMW M3's and Porsche 911's - cars which make for super best awesome daily drivers, but I feel they both are burdened with overly complicated features (ack, Germans!).

My recipe for the perfect new car: $15-20K price tag, manual transmission, rwd w/ lsd, independent suspension, four wheel disk brakes w/ abs, curb weight under 3,000 lbs. The Miata, Solstice and new Genesis coupe almost make it, but are still a bit too expensive.

nderwater wrote:

gamby wrote: All I need is A/C and power brakes. I don't mind rolling up my windows with a crank.

If you're selling in the south, you've got to have a/c. I also prefer abs for driving in the rain, although 2 out of my 5 most recent cars haven't had it.

See, theres the problem right there. YOU DON'T need that stuff, especially ABS. And since even a car guy like yourself isn't willing to buy a car without those things, it will never come to be.

Honestly, I think you should look at European Small Car companies: Lotus, Caterham, Westfield, Weismann, etc. Specifically Lotus though :D

They aren't trying to compete with the "Big Boys" in the manufacturing game, but fill a niche market that the big companies do not already provide an option for.

I seriously think that with the rising interest in Autocross and Drifting that a lightweight, rearwheel drive, hard-roofed car, for UNDER $20k would sell amazingly well. Keep weight below 3000lbs for a modern lightweight. Use a naturally aspirated 1.6 or 1.8L SOHC as a base engine. 5 speed trans. Etc. Sounding like an AE86 yet? Offer 2 body styles: 4 door Sedan, and 2 door Coupe/hatch. If you can, squeeze in Double Wishbones front and rear. And bam, you have a nice reliable commuter as a standard car. Fuel efficient, but with enough power to keep people happy. Then throw a DOHC head on the standard engine, for step up in performance, and at the top tier, either a 2.0 or a 2.2L. Don't worry about turbos, for an upstart manufacturer trying to cut into an already VIOLENTLY competitive market (Sub comparts, compacts), while also filling a Niche market, turbos might eat into the development budget a little too much. Besides, the aftermarket will take it up quickly if the chassis is right.

Take a few years to work out the details, then work on the update, and then the turbo model, or a light weight, small capacity V6.

Remember though, that the Chassis set up is the most important and critical aspect of it all I think. Why? Because power, and transmissions are easier to fix than a dodgy/bodged chassis. Look at the first Isuzu Impulse: Violent oversteer that was hard to control. Reviews loathed the handling of it. Engines are great however....We never got many, but in Europe, they are just cannibalized for the axles to be stuffed under Chevettes, Kadetts, and Opl GTs.

Opposite? Neon Civics AE86 (Alright, a bit late to the game but...) ETC. All of these were, pretty much from the factory, underpowered. But the handling makes up for it. And the aftermarket takes care of the power issue until you, the manufacturer can afford to really dump the money into the power train.

Work the fuel economy angle.

Show how much economy is lost per extra 100 lbs in a car. The '85? CRX HF was able to get 50+ mpg WITHOUT any sort of hybrid BS, heck, if I remember correctly, it wasn't even fuel injected, lol.

Work the economy angle - show that by having a simple car, it becomes possible for the everyman to do their own maintenance again with simple handtools, and thus they save an additional $X by not having to take it to the garage and get it diagnosed by an R2 unit.

Lotus is probably your best example, your second best probably being the used car market. Dealers can't get stuff off their lots, but used cars on craigslist are gone by the time you see the ad (no, I'm not bitter, thank you for asking). Used cars are cheap and easy to work on.

Also, does this have to be for the US Market? You can also look at China and India's car market, and the Tata Nano, or whatever that thing is called. Oh, and the Scion iQ concept. And the Smart.

There are a few cars that come to mind that I like i.e. a simple, no frills car: Yaris hatch, Accent hatch, Smart and Miata (i'm not sure if you can get one with crank windows?). What I like in a car is no power options, 16 valve engine with good revving factor, minimum 30 mpg around town, decent gearbox, lightweight, decently bolstered seats, hatchback capabilities, good handling and short wheelbase. The Yaris is a solid, quality example of one that I would buy. The 5 door version of the hatch is even better except for the lack of a manual tranny in it.

People in America don't want no frills basic econoboxes that are fun to drive. They are lazy and want as many doodads as possible. Thats probably why I drive a $450 Escort..

Anyone who's ever driven a fleet car does not want one as their own car. I don't think there's a big market for a vehicle like this, except in commercial fleets and specialty nitches. People want their gee-gaws and cup holders.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/17/autos/honda_civic_hf/index.htm

Also, people 'round here seem to dig the smart car. I'd work that angle.

im afraid i might be some kind of a freek! i like the no frills,less to go wrong,sporty, lightwieght concept

I can only tell you the cars I own and why I have them.

1979 RX7. Never had a/c. Never had p/s. small. cheap. can be driven hard for hours with no ill effects.

1979 Wagoneer. No power windows/locks/seats. Big motor, 4x4. Super cheap to purchase. Simple to work on. Can take a lot of abuse and neglect.

2002 P71. No nav, no sunroof, no leather. Just a big v8 and rwd for super cheap. Hauls the whole family reliably and comfortably. Simple to work on. Can take a lot of abuse and neglect.

belteshazzar.. do you like to give out abuse and neglect? lol

abuse, yes. neglect, I don't like to admit to. More like I'm less concerned about what the p/o has done to the car.

holy carp, i just looked at the build-your-own page for the new solstice coupe gxp (starting at 31,xxx) and a/c is a $960 option, which is also not available with the club sport package.

The Genesis turbo is looking good.

How about a RWD Pontiac G8 V6 manual with no AC, no PS, no electric windows, no ABS, no bodykit or wing, clean wheels in a realistic size (16") to keep weight down, no GPS (can you say Tom Tom), LSD instead of traction control, etc.....and call it a "Clubsport":

Sort of sounds familiar doesn't it