In reply to calteg :
The main selling point vs last time is access to off lease cars. If you're not in the program, you only have access to ones turned in at your store. No lease returns will be running through the auctions.
In reply to calteg :
The main selling point vs last time is access to off lease cars. If you're not in the program, you only have access to ones turned in at your store. No lease returns will be running through the auctions.
Speaking of Fit, I just saw this one that CarMax is selling:
Carvana has had huge title issues in a couple states. Florida was threatening to pull their dealer licenses and forbid them from selling cars. There were more than a few people that bought cars and waited weeks, if not months to secure a title.
chknhwk said:Wut is this ridiculousness
There has been some shady auctions lately on BAT that really makes no sense.
In reply to GeddesB :
Carvana had their license revoked in North Carolina for 30 days.
Fueled by Caffeine said:Not even the people at carvanna can figure out why they are paying so much for cars. Seems to me like their ai is programmed to win vs get the best deal despite what they say.
When prices fall they could be stuck with a bunch of upside down cars.
I just read about a guy who sold his 2019 Spark - to Carvana at a premium because the Bronco he ordered came in. A few months later Carvana offered him $18k more for the Bronco than he paid, so he sold it to them and with the profit bought a brand new Spark.
Who else thinks Carvana's going to declare bankruptcy when prices normalize?
In reply to Peabody :
They can't normalize if they hoover up all the used cars, cornering the market.
I realize that they have to actually sell them for any kind of business model to work, but they are literally paying more for used cars than new MSRP. There could be a business model in buying a new car and selling it to Carvana after a few months.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
You're 6 months late on the buy cars and sell them to Carvana bandwagon. They've already stopped buying, and are dumping cars as they try to hang on. They'll be gone by end of the year.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
To be honest, I always figured that their business model involved selling the cars in South America or China or someplace, like how European used cars end up in Africa.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Maybe that explains the Excursion pricing. South/Central American drug lords have probably bought up most of the good condition Hummer H2s, so need to move on to something else.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
Not really. I just made 9K on my BRZ. Bought it for $27K and sold it to Carvana for 36K last week. So I'll be driving my old integra and miata till the insanity dies down.
In the next 3-4 months I have to add a vehicle to the stable for the about to be 16 yo son. I have clearly been out of touch on the cheap used market. Was expecting to get something with 100k on it, some toaster oven Honda / Toyota etc. for $5-6k. Those things are $10k with a salvage / rebuilt title.
Depreciation on "luxury" vehicles is funny. I find more sub-100k, $10k luxury brands than I do Hondas / Toyotas. If I was buying for me, I can find lots of fun for less than $10k. But for my son (who has zero interest in cars, learning to drive a stick, or driving my Tundra), the reliable options to drive through high school, and off to college is pretty slim pickings. Almost pondering buying my wife something more fun, Rover?, and giving the kid her Rogue that's 7 years old but only got 60k on it.
The goal is to pick up something before we actually need it so I can daily it some to work through any bugs.
In reply to wake74 :
Get rid of the Rouge and its "sure to die" cvt trans while the getting is good!
As for Jr.... The whole world wants a small SUV. With demand high the prices are high. The world doesn't want sedans and far less wants 2 door cars. So, there are still bargains to be had there. Look at Solara, Celica, Accord Coupe, Ford ZX3 and ZX2.
In reply to wake74 :
Wait apparently there is a huge bubble forming in subprime auto loans. Most people are predicting lots of cars back on the market and reduced prices.
Oh yeah - having been in the market for a cheap tow vehicle/offroader, I've been noticing a weird hole right around the price/age range I had been looking at for some of the SUVs on my list. Then I realized 2009-2012 had a lot lower production, so not only are we supply constrained on new cars, we're also short on used cars that would usually fall into the lower price ranges at about this time.
I speculate that car prices will start to soften pretty dramatically.
I owned a Suburban during the last gas price spike and the 42 gallon gas tank x $4.00/gallon fuel convinced me to sell it. This was back when cars like Geo Metro became desirable and truck values fell to the floor
This time around I might just be the guy buying a nice full size SUV or truck since I don't drive a ton of miles and it'd be great to get a discount.
As the market softens, this data point will mean less, but because I almost never see anyone volunteer this info, here you go. It's also to poke a finger in the eye of the rumor that CarMax only marks up cars $2K:
A few weeks ago, we sold a 2014 Lexus with 13K miles on it (yes really) to CarMax. They paid ~$26K, and a few weeks later, it popped up for $34K. So yeah, when they get a car in really good condition and low miles, there is no limit on what they'll ask, it's what the market will bear.
Pretty interesting article on the car loan industry and current situation.
Many Americans Are Overpaying for Their Car Loans
Not to mention all the overpriced cars the dealers could get stuck with if it all goes south
All this talk of a loan bubble that is going to "correct" the current car market. I'm not buying it. Yes, there is a predatory lending problem in auto loans but I don't think this bubble will burst enough to fix the f-ed up car market.
First, we have all known for a long time that car dealerships are not required to offer you the lowest interest rate you qualify for but rather they present you the lowest interest rare you will accept. In 2020, I bought my 2019 Dodge Grand Caravan and at the time I chronicled that the dealership presented me "monthly payment" type numbers. When I pushed for more details it became evident that they were offering me a rate of nearly 5%. I arrived armed with a pre-approval for 3.24% (that the dealership would make no commission from the financing.) This prompted the dealership finance guy to find me a 2.84% (that he did make a commission from.) So, I too could have been sold a near 5% instead of a 2.84%
So, we know people are put into crappy terms. Most people really crappy!
But, even if a lot of cars get repo'ed and end back up on dealer lots, I still don't see this solving the problem. If X-amount of cars are repo'ed and back on lots, the demand problem is 4X. I just don't think there will be enough cars coming back on the market to make a real and noticeable impact.
More so, I also don't think there will be any real "auto lending reform" that cuts down on predatory lending, even if it is just the version I experienced of 2.84% - 5%. But with a lift in repos, we'll have a lift in bad credit buyers who will continue the cycle of crappier car ownership at an even higher price. This should assure that the desire for "cheap cars" keeps rising and $6k for a 20 year old, 200k Toyota will continue.
Very few 2020, 2021 and 2022 model year cars have been made. This means frugal buyer like ourselves who historically bought cars that were off-lease and maybe 3 years old will have very little to choose from for the next 5 years. That small supply will keep prices high, regardless of interest rates and foreclosed loans.
Yes, I agree that Carvan is a scheme to hoard cars and force market prices high. Given their background of owning the high rate, high default chain known as Drivetime, they too can not resist the opportunity to put people in hefty loans. I too think Carvana is a "house of cards" that could very easily fall. That, I think will have a better impact on correcting the current car market than defaulting loans will. But, also remember that Caravan mostly plays in cars less than 8 years old and less than 100k miles or what we might call, "current models." If Carvana falls, its not going to suddenly bring that 20 year old Toyota with 200k miles back to $2k. These cars are going to still remain $6k and maybe higher with more "bad credit" shoppers.
In reply to John Welsh :
$6k for a clapped out Corolla was pre pandemic pricing, sadly...
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