More room and more MPG

So my wife and I were talking about replacing her car for kid number 2. Its a 05 Toyota Matrix base model. We were thinking minivan possibly SUV (she wants SUV but understand minivan is just much more practical). She works from home and does mostly city driving now. I think we are seeing like 25/26 city and maybe averaging up to 28mpg on a tank.

If there anything we could get that would give us 2-3 more inches in width in the back seat and maybe a little bit more space without trading much fuel economy or even better gaining fuel economy?

Did the newerish mercedes wagons ever come diesel here? I know I was looking for a manual diesel one and it pretty much didnt exist

How much space in a Mazda5? It actually seems smaller than the Matrix at first glance

B5 Passat TDI Wagon? The last of the bigger body passats?

The mz5 is a bit larger than the vibax, available with manual also. There was just a thread about them...

I know there are a couple threads about them. When I look at them they don't seem much bigger but maybe worth a look

CX5? Better mpg than either by quite a bit, lots of storage for 2 kids.

Camry 4-banger, you're looking at 27-28 MPG, it's decently sized, and it's good at what it does...

Does the CX5 really beat a TDI wagon? I am generally not a fan of the new car tax but those CX-5s are nice.

The B4 TDI at least (and I think the B5) had a huge 25 gallon fuel tank allowing single tanks of close to 1500 miles

Most of the used minivans we were pricing were going to end up around 20k which is the CX-5 sport base price

I don't know what a TDI wagon gets, but considering diesel is about $1 a gallon more here than 87 (which is what the CX5 runs on), I'd sway towards the new Mazda. It's a typical small SUV/Crossover, built on the new mid-size Mazda6 chassis. 5 passengers, good room, great driving dynamics. If you can/are willing to swing a new car, this is "the one".

The Mazda5 is based on the Mazda3 and is much larger than a Matrix. However, the M5 has captain's chairs in the second row, and the third row are "jump" seats. Perfect for a family of 4 plus storage/dog who could use an extra seat in a pinch, bad for a family of 5. All of the seats fold flat for massive cargo space. Mileage will only be equal to what you have now, unless you get the newest one with the 6-speed manual (or smarter yet, wait for an all-new one with SkyActiv in ~2 years).

Raze wrote: Camry 4-banger, you're looking at 27-28 MPG, it's decently sized, and it's good at what it does...

Camry Hybrid. It'll crush in MPG. Also the fastest car mentioned in this thread...

I think the Matrix is rated like 26/32 or something so the 21/26 of the 5 is a bit less the 26/35 of the CX-5 is notably better

comparing interior dimensions it says that the CX-5 has 3 more inches of rear shoulder room and 10!!! more inches of rear hip room. That is some prime baby seat space.

ProDarwin wrote:

Raze wrote: Camry 4-banger, you're looking at 27-28 MPG, it's decently sized, and it's good at what it does...

Camry Hybrid. It'll crush in MPG. Also the fastest car mentioned in this thread...

Does it come in wagon?

Actually on that note I was eyeballing the new Cmax, especially the Energi plugin version since I think the wife could run off pure electric 90% of the time

NM the ecoboost escape is 25k, the hybrid cmax 28k and the energi 32k

12k buys a lot of gas

I wish I had the cheap gas you have in Oregon Javelin. Here most of the year diesel is at most 20 cents more a gallon and parts of the year its actually cheaper than gas

Mazda5 or Mazda CX5

buy a nice mid 90's Caprice wagon and use the tens of thousands of dollars saved by not buying something new to put gas in it forever.

How many miles per year does your wife drive? Are you looking for fuel economy for environmental or economical reasons?

If the mileage is low enough for the fuel savings to be a secondary consideration, I would go for the minivan for the space and convenience.

Its hard to beat being able to climb in out of the rain while having enough room for buckling the little ones into their seats. The power sliding doors are nice, allowing easy access when hands are full.

As for the Mazda 5 or CX-5, for the city with a new baby I would go with the Mazda 5 for the sliding doors. You will always be able to open the door wide enough to fit a child carrier in, where the SUV could be tough to get enough door opening if the car next to you parks close.

I cant remember how much a Prius V starts at but you might want to check.

I just checked out the C-Max in person, its pretty cool but does seem pricey with those numbers.

I dont think a mazda5 is much of an upgrade unless you count room behind the 2nd row. It'll actually do worse on mpg in all likelihood.

I think the CX-5 idea is pretty good.

Any of the hybrid midsize sedans will do what you want. Even the old Accord Hybrid which is barely a hybrid will do it, and also go pretty darn fast.

jstand wrote: How many miles per year does your wife drive? Are you looking for fuel economy for environmental or economical reasons? If the mileage is low enough for the fuel savings to be a secondary consideration, I would go for the minivan for the space and convenience. Its hard to beat being able to climb in out of the rain while having enough room for buckling the little ones into their seats. The power sliding doors are nice, allowing easy access when hands are full. As for the Mazda 5 or CX-5, for the city with a new baby I would go with the Mazda 5 for the sliding doors. You will always be able to open the door wide enough to fit a child carrier in, where the SUV could be tough to get enough door opening if the car next to you parks close.

She says currently she fills up not quite once a week and with the type of driving she is doing now she is getting about 25mpg 250 miles a tank. So 12-13,000 miles a year. Prior to working from home she was doing more highway but 400 miles a week.

I am looking more to minimize the economic impact and make an improvement if possible while addressing increasing space needs. Environmentally, I like to be as clean as I can but it's not going to be a big factor for purchasing anything

I agree power sliding doors and sliding doors are one of the big reasons we have considered a full size minivan

Top of the list has been a used Honda Odyssey around 09ish that has the power sliding doors etc. Used would cost about the same as the new CX-5 and have 70-100,000 miles on it.

Fueleconomy.gov says it would be about an extra 1000 a year between the matrix and the odyssey in fuel prices but thats assuming mixed driving. 12,000 miles/25 mpg = 480 gallons x 4 bucks a gallon (if im lucky here) = 1920 dollars. vs 12,000/17 = 705 gallons x 4 = 2823

Honestly the mazda5's fuel economy splits the difference and might not be worth the loss of full size minivan utility

We are not afraid of used cars. We use my 2000 Jetta TDI as much as we can for the fuel economy. This may not be an issue with the second kid however as child seats only really fit in the middle of it with room for grownups

Since kia is redesigning the sedona you might be able to find a good deal on a new or used. If used and CPO it still has the 100k power train warranty.

We currently have a 2010 Kia Sedona, and so far only oil changes and front brakes in 30k miles. I was disappointed at only getting 20k out of front brakes, but its 90% around town miles. It only gets 17-18 mpg around town, but I can live with that based on the cost/ features compared to the Japanese brands.

Jaynen wrote: Does the CX5 really beat a TDI wagon?

No. Not even close.

The MX5 gets up to 35 mpg. The TDI gets awfully close to 50 mpg (most people find it exceeds the EPA rating).

Even if the fuel was $1.25 extra, it wouldn't make the difference.

Now size... that''s a different issue.

I think the B5 Passat has a different motor and is rated not as highly as the B4/or the Jetta TDI (which I have a sedan but its a bit small)

Prius V? Bigger than the Matrix, rated at 42 combined. No 3rd row seats, but the 2nd row is gigantic.

Edit. Only slightly bigger. Didn't realize the Matrix was that big.

Not getting a PriusV for a deal. I cross shopped them when I bought my MZ5.

For two children, the 06+ Rav4 has a lot of space and gets decent mileage. I say two and not three kids because Toyota's design for the center seatbelt in the 2nd row is really poor. The center seatbelt crosses over the driver's side seatbelt, so you can't have three passengers safely belted in the rear seat. I average 24 MPG in mixed driving with our V6 AWD model.

We also have an '06 Odyssey, and love it. Unfortunately, the in-town mileage isn't that great (14 MPG). We get mileage in the mid-20s on the highway, I think the poor mileage in town has to do with the heavier weight of the Odyssey (it burns more fuel moving off from a stop).

The C-Max and CX-5 look like good suggestions in terms of SUVs, and the hybrid sedans (Camry, Altima, Fusion, etc.) will do really well in the city driving. I drove a Prius once and was surprised by the amount of room in the 2nd seat. Unfortunately, it's going to be smaller overall than your Matrix.

When we were shopping for a minivan, we liked the Mazda5, but decided that it didn't have enough room for us. My wife and I were also concerned about how close the third row was to the back glass. The Odyssey has a little more space between the third row and the rear window.

In terms of fuel economy, the sweet spot of a diesel is highway MPG, and the hybrids are just about unbeatable in town.

Yeah definitely true. Although my diesel still beats every non hybrid gas car I can think of on city mileage at 37mpg

To bad there is no wagon version of the new fusion as the hybrid gets great gas mileage and even the new 1.6 ecoboost is an impressive 24 city/37 highway

On the highway, the advantage of a diesel is very clear cut. In city driving, even though the diesel gets better mileage than the non-hybrid equivalent, part (but definitely not all) of that gain is offset by the higher cost of diesel. Now, the relative price between gas and diesel can fluctuate, but in general diesel's been more expensive. It's one of those less obvious things in the mileage discussion, much like comparing vehicles that require regular vs. premium gas, or the fact that diesels usually beat the EPA ratings.

Jaynen wrote: To bad there is no wagon version of the new fusion as the hybrid gets great gas mileage and even the new 1.6 ecoboost is an impressive 24 city/37 highway

Edge Ecoboost? 21/30 mpg.