Most aggressive treaded in a car tire?

I'd be looking for 195 60 15 or thereabouts. Since rally tires are out of the budget, what's the most aggressive tread that can be had that can be found locally or on the net? Anything out there aside from snow tires?

(Excuse the mis-written title)

Don't the rallycross guys usually use a winter tire? Something like these:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Winterforce&partnum=96SR5FWF&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

Generally, I would say snow tires, if you mean "aggressive" for off-road grip.

I'm very happy with my Mastercraft Glacier-Grips. At 50F they had the same grip as medium compound Michelin rally tires of the same size. Plus they are CHEAP!! I was out the door for only $400 for four hoops. You can't get four used rally tires worth a crap for that little any more.

I still would not run them at hot events or rough events, though. They also NEED pressure. At 30psi they feel like rally tires at 10psi - no response.

I run rally tires at 30psi to cut down on rolling resistance and add responsiveness. Lower pressure doesn't seem to equate to more grip. Your results may vary with the suspension you have, mine is fairly stiff to deal with the rough courses we have, so a side effect seems to be that it can control the basketball effect better.

I just wish BF Goodrich made All Terrains or Mud Terrains in passenger sized tires! I have snows now (and omg do they make a world of difference in the snow!) but I'd like four 3 season tires with as much off road traction possible.

IDK if they go smaller than 225-75r15, or whatever all the older XJs I see running them takes, but some of the maypop brands offer those old school super high void snow tires with the big lugs on the edges in a pretty hard compound. Look at the old Kelly Wintermark to see what I'm talking about. I imagine they would work well in mud and gravel.

Edit: Copies of the Goodyear "Suburbanite" mud and snow tire are what I'm thinking of.

+1 on the Firestone tires.

Here's another suggestion:

Get whatever tire you want, and get a $40 tire groover (and appropriate blades) off ebay or wherever.

Then you can have whatever tread you want. It's kind of time-consuming, but no difficult at all. You can also sipe with it, if you run in winter/wet conditions a lot.

this is just opening up my rally tire tread a bit, but you get the idea

Can you use those tire groovers to cut deeper grooves in your tires when the tread wear's down? I know it is common on offroad tires to "re-groove" them, but can you do this with car tires as well.?

I've always liked the idea of grooving my own tires! Those Wintermark tires look like just the ticket!

Towel City Ice Racing tires are meaty. They come in any compound you want. I ran them on my Mazda even on the highway in hot weather but they are retreads.

Mmadness wrote: Can you use those tire groovers to cut deeper grooves in your tires when the tread wear's down? I know it is common on offroad tires to "re-groove" them, but can you do this with car tires as well.?

I think it depends on the tire, but I've seen circle-track dirt guys deepen the tread of worn tires before. I guess you'd have to know the thickness of the rubber.

I was just thinking that you could take some all-seasons and widen out all the grooves to make them a tread pattern more like a snow tire, but would have the harder compound that wouldn't get so torn up at hot-weather events.

irish44j wrote:

Mmadness wrote: Can you use those tire groovers to cut deeper grooves in your tires when the tread wear's down? I know it is common on offroad tires to "re-groove" them, but can you do this with car tires as well.?

I think it depends on the tire, but I've seen circle-track dirt guys deepen the tread of worn tires before. I guess you'd have to know the thickness of the rubber. I was just thinking that you could take some all-seasons and widen out all the grooves to make them a tread pattern more like a snow tire, but would have the harder compound that wouldn't get so torn up at hot-weather events.

I was thinking the same thing. Likely the way I'm going to go.

In reply to ebonyandivory:

the smallest size you are going to find is 205-70/r15 and the most aggressive tire in that size is the yokohama Geolandar A/T-S

nicksta43 wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Likely the way I'm going to go.

Beware that cut edges seem to wear far, far faster than molded ones. I destroyed a few pairs of not-terrible rally tires by sharpening them, which made them round off much faster. I even annihilated a pair of Hankook rally tires in one glorious event on cold, abrasive mud.

Hankooks on their way to being destroyed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVYWleeCrfc

Mastercraft snows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=6jdbhE32M2s

The reason you're not finding what you want is that true truck tires don't come in a 60 aspect ratio.

If smaller wheels will fit over your brakes, think 195/70-14.

You can get Firestone WinterForce in that size for $61 at Tire Rack.

I've been using these cheap snow tires on my Cavalier year round and have had no problems in deep snow and sand. The only downside is over 80 mph they feel like they are made of Jell-o

Knurled wrote: Beware that cut edges seem to wear far, far faster than molded ones. I destroyed a few pairs of not-terrible rally tires by sharpening them, which made them round off much faster.

Yep the sharper and harder the edge the faster it will wear. This is why a lot of tires have a feather pattern of cuts on the sides of tread blocks, like you can see on an SPT:

This makes the edges more flexible and slows wear.

FranktheTank wrote: Towel City Ice Racing tires are meaty. They come in any compound you want. I ran them on my Mazda even on the highway in hot weather but they are retreads.

Hhmm, this is interesting. I've never heard of Towel city before. Google shows me this for their 15" ice race tires.

The biggest issue is that a 225/70/15 is the smallest 15" they do. They are only $75 each, but that's a big big tire.

I was looking at the Firestone Winterforce 195/60/15 for $73 each from Tire rack

There is the General Grabber AT, but again the smallest available is the 215/75/15 at $104 each. The height is 27.7" Vs the 24.3" for the Winterforce.

As used rally tires seem to have vanished off the face of the earth I think it will have to be winterforce.

I'm guessing the reason used rally tires have dried up is several factors:
1. The increase in popularity of Rallycross meaning the market for used tirs has grown.
2. There are at least 20 cheap rally builds being documented on dirtyimpreza so they are probably sucking up more too.
3. The # of entries at events seems markedly down over the last couple of years, even though the tough economic climate of 08/09/10 is passed. Less people rallying means fewer used tires for more rallycrossers.

It's the perfect storm of supply Vs demand

I love the Firestone Winterforce tires... Very sturdy and stiff sidewall for a winter tire... I ran them on the rear of my Mazda and the Towel City's in the front all of last winter. It was a beastly combination. Though the Winterforce was not nearly as sticky next time I order TCs I'm getting a harder compound.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137640&highlight=Towel

All in 185/70r14

The snow tires that Wally and Adrian put up are good for snow, really good on ice because each block is further diced up like a grippy boat shoe, but I would think for mud and dirt you would want something with bigger lugs that clear faster.

914Driver wrote: The snow tires that Wally and Adrian put up are good for snow, really good on ice because each block is further diced up like a grippy boat shoe, but I would think for mud and dirt you would want something with bigger lugs that clear faster

Precisely!

When I was ice racing I went for narrow and very TALL tires. Wide ones will hydroplane where the narrow tall ones would go to the bottom of the puddle and dig in.

I don't know if this logic would apply to Rally, but I'd guess a tall side wall would keep from banging a rim.

Dan

ebonyandivory wrote:

914Driver wrote: The snow tires that Wally and Adrian put up are good for snow, really good on ice because each block is further diced up like a grippy boat shoe, but I would think for mud and dirt you would want something with bigger lugs that clear faster

Precisely!

I realize that, but where do you find something around 24" tall, 15" and 185/195 section with an open block pattern for less than $100 a corner shipped?

There is also DMACK rally tires, who seem to make the cheapest real new rally tire available in the US, but they are $189 plus shipping each. http://www.dmacktyresusa.com/#!

I guess the Winterforce is really looking the best bet. They also have the advantage of working OK by all acounts as a mud/dirt rallycross tire, while working perfectly for winter rallycross (Detroit has a year round season). Where real rally tires will be perfect for summer events, but not work at all in the snow/ice.

Let's hope tirerack still have winterforce in stock in a couple of months when I'm finaly ready for my first event!