Most efficient 4 cylinder that actually doesn't suck to drive (RWD)???

So, my hair brained idea is to make my starlet into a killer commuter since I have a limited budget (see Honda Insight thread) and drive 90 miles a day. If I have to drive something that is loud, it might as well be fast and turn well.

So here is the question:

If you were building a Toyota Starlet (1981) and needed it to get AT LEAST 36 mpg doing 75mph AND have enough power to keep me entertained (I have no idea what this would be), what motor/transmission would you choose? First thought is various 4ages but these are either quite old or imports. I want something that is reasonably new, fuel injected, etc.... I am not sure a Duratec meets my MPG requirements.

Also, the Starlet will sport an IRS from a 90 Miata so that means my diff isn't the glass toyota original but it is stuck with Miata gears.

3-Cyl Ford Ecotec.

Can you take the motor/trans out of the same Miata? What can a Starlet weigh? 1600lbs? Use a 6 speed trans and it should be so overdriven that it actually fills the tank as you drive.

I was JUST looking up the 1.0L Ford but it isn't available yet and no clue when it will come out.

Yes, the Miata has a motor still in it. It is a 1.6L short nose that hasn't been on the road for something like 5 years. I am sure this would make my wife happy, but I am not 100% sure it would make me happy.

Reading over this again, I sound like I am asking for the 600 hp BMW wagon diesel that gets 70 mpgs.... Crap.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Use a 6 speed trans and it should be so overdriven that it actually fills the tank as you drive.

That is awesome!

I think stock trim is close to 1800 and adding the miata suspension will probably put me around 2K.

Couple things:

The 1.6 miata rear is pretty much glass, don't know what your definition of "entertaining" is, but i wouldn't trust it. Even if it holds, the VLSD is definitely worn out by now.

A later miata BP + 6spd + 3.63 rear end should probably do 36mpg on the highway in a car that light.

The obligatory F2T answer: If i can do 41mpg on the highway in the MX6, you should be able to do more with 1000lbs less.

Yeah, but that motor is thin on the ground is pretty damn old at this point. Not that I am going to argue if I find one.

It would sound like ass but the GM 60 degree in the 3.5L trim comes to mind... I have spent too much time looking at MGs

singleslammer wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Use a 6 speed trans and it should be so overdriven that it actually fills the tank as you drive.

That is awesome! I think stock trim is close to 1800 and adding the miata suspension will probably put me around 2K.

The Miata 6 speed trans? That's not overdrive at all- it's more like a 5 speed that is closer to each other.

There used to be a really good mix and match page for final drives that fit the Miata rear end- but IIRC, there's a 3.90 or 3.63 that's avaialable. That's where the revs will be found, some really tall final.

When I was resarching the idea, I also found an RX7 trans that had some cool wide ratios- so that when added to the taller final, gears 1-3 were almost the same total rate, 4 was about 10% taller, and 5 ended up being about 25% taller. I was tempted to try that with my Miata- 3000rpm at 70mph would have been interesting.

In terms of a good engine, the 2.0l MZR/Duratec is quite good. And it's set up already to be RWD. Gear it right, and you should be able to get 40mpg pretty easy.

In reply to singleslammer: BAD, FWIW, keep the sho swap going. If you slap a tall rear gear in it, it should be capable of netting you mid 30's in a car that light(It'll return 30-31 in a 3k+ lb car)

In reply to yamaha:

Yeah, well it is somewhat of an unknown for as long as it has been sitting and if I have to drive the thing daily, I want something a little less nose heavy.

I had thought this page had been gone for good- http://www.solomiata.com/Drivetrain.html

But you can get gear ratio ideas, and some gear swapping ideas. Since you are putting this into a project- install the final and gear set as needed.

So matching the Miata trans + my 4.10 final, and then changing it to basically a 85 RX7 (w/ .711 5th) + the 6 speed final of 3.63, gears 1 and 2 were 2% faster, 3 was 5.5% slower, 4- 11.5% slower, and 5- 22.7% slower. Close enough for autocrossing, and nice and wide on the highway.

The hard part for me would have been the gear swap, since the transmissions are not 100% identical, plus some effort swapping the final.

Why not a 2zzge or even the 1zz. The 1zz does close to 40 in a corolla with the right gearing.

singleslammer wrote: Yeah, but that motor is thin on the ground is pretty damn old at this point. Not that I am going to argue if I find one.

They're only thin on the ground if you don't know Ben.

The main issue there is transmission. There is no factory transmission that bolts up. An adapter is possible but still not the route that I really want to go. That is part of the reason that the SHO motor isn't looking as likely.

In reply to mndsm:

You have a point there. This does fall into the same situation as my SHO setup.

Ben - What would a RWD adapted complete drivetrain run me with all the do dads to make it go?

alfadriver wrote: The Miata 6 speed trans? That's not overdrive at all- it's more like a 5 speed that is closer to each other.

Which is how most 6 speed trans are, but I don't know of any 5 speeds where 5th is 1-1 or higher.

If it were me, I'd go ecotec

sanman wrote: Why not a 2zzge or even the 1zz. The 1zz does close to 40 in a corolla with the right gearing.

I was thinking a 1zz. 2zzs make gas disappear like a V6.

singleslammer wrote: The main issue there is transmission. There is no factory transmission that bolts up. An adapter is possible but still not the route that I really want to go. That is part of the reason that the SHO motor isn't looking as likely.

3.0L ranger 5sp trans will bolt to a sho 3.0/3.2L......SHO flywheel/pressure plate, '95 GTP clutch disc, and the ranger slave.

For the F2T swap, the direct bolt on transmissions are from B2200 and B2600 mazda trucks.

singleslammer wrote: The main issue there is transmission. There is no factory transmission that bolts up. An adapter is possible but still not the route that I really want to go. That is part of the reason that the SHO motor isn't looking as likely.

Yeah there is. B2600/B2200 trans bolts up.

So does Miata 6spd with 10 minutes of work to the bell housing and some light modification to the arm.

Obviously you'd need a custom driveshaft because of length, but using say... a B2200 trans to pretty much a shortened Miata driveshaft setup to your Miata rear end would be pretty cake.

If you want to make this even easier and can live without the boost.... use a Kia FE3 out of a RWD 5spd 1st gen Sportage. Just grab it all. Then boost it to about 500whp later, obviously.

Those new Toyobaruion FR-Z-86-BR-S-GTs seem to get pretty good fuel economy.

I REALLY doubt a flat 4 will fit in my engine bay. Plus those motors cost as much as a crate 2.0L Ecoboost.

There is a lot of dicussion of weight in this thread, which has little to do with highway mileage. At 75mph its going to be mostly aero drag, especially with a high drag car. Drag coefficient of a Starlet is > 0.4. A NA Miata is 0.38.

Good luck getting any RWD 4 banger to get 36mpg @ 75mph in that car. It is not a good starting platform.

Just to be different, VW TDI and a 5 speed out of a Samurai. Get the pre 88.5 transmission and it will have the .795:1 5th and should return pretty awesome fuel economy.

I'm still thinking the 4age is probably the easy button and a known swap.