DrBoost wrote: I supported my family of five for almost two years of unemployment largely by flipping cars. What he's saying is common sense and being done on different scales by lots of folks. I guess that's why I'm not impressed. But good for him. I'm Going to start a cooking blog. It will basically say this: Choose a good recipe. Follow the recipe. Don't burn it.
You told me you were an exotic dancer to make ends meet.
tuna55 wrote:jv8 wrote: I'm all for saving $1 where possible. But the article was about "the man who gets his cars for free". Except they weren't free. He was spending time and energy dealing and repairing cars in exchange for reduced cost of his hobby and transportation. If you enjoy that job - awesome! But I don't see the difference between that and say, spending 20 extra hours per year at your day job paying for the depreciation on your long-term ownership DD. Which method is more cost-efficient just comes down to the $/hr numbers and whether you view dealing/maintenance as fun or work.I wish people would stop thinking that all of us have jobs where more hours equals more pay. My pay rate is exactly the same, if I work 40 hours or 60.
So in your case the question becomes whether or not you want to spend some of your available free time to reduce the cost of your hobby. Personally I view flipping cars as a second job equivalent to moonlight contracting. But I could see people doing it for fun. It's all good!
Many ways to skin the cat but in all cases his cars are not "free" as in falling-out-of-the-sky. Time/energy is turning into monetary benefit.
I guess I'm with DrBoost and think it's just common sense so why is a blogger making $400K/yr on this. But I guess Dave Ramsey probably makes more than that repeatedly telling people to spend less than they earn!
Not sure why nobody has picked up the idea better- but the concept idea fits PERFECTLY with the challenge.
Buy low, spend a total of less than $20XX, sell high.
Done.
Realistically, it's not hard to think that the high end work that we have seen can be sold for high end dollars. I can't be the only one who think that more than one of wheel's projects could be sold for north of $20k. Especially the yellow former bug.
Crap- the whole group of aristocrat cars should be able to buy super low, and sell reasonably high....
jv8 wrote:tuna55 wrote:So in your case the question becomes whether or not you want to spend some of your available free time to reduce the cost of your hobby. Personally I view flipping cars as a second job equivalent to moonlight contracting. But I could see people doing it for fun. It's all good! Many ways to skin the cat but in all cases his cars are not "free" as in falling-out-of-the-sky. Time/energy is turning into monetary benefit. I guess I'm with DrBoost and think it's just common sense so why is a blogger making $400K/yr on this. But I guess Dave Ramsey probably makes more than that repeatedly telling people to spend less than they earn!jv8 wrote: I'm all for saving $1 where possible. But the article was about "the man who gets his cars for free". Except they weren't free. He was spending time and energy dealing and repairing cars in exchange for reduced cost of his hobby and transportation. If you enjoy that job - awesome! But I don't see the difference between that and say, spending 20 extra hours per year at your day job paying for the depreciation on your long-term ownership DD. Which method is more cost-efficient just comes down to the $/hr numbers and whether you view dealing/maintenance as fun or work.I wish people would stop thinking that all of us have jobs where more hours equals more pay. My pay rate is exactly the same, if I work 40 hours or 60.
I think it all comes down to how you view the "work". I personally enjoy the process of getting a car back into great condition. It's not a second job for me. It's not stressful, in fact it's kind of a stress release for me. I'd much rather do that that pick up a side contract IT job. I guess if you're more into the motorsports aspect of cars I can see how this would get in your way a bit, you'd rather focus on porting and polishing, than sanding and buffing a car's finish to get that extra bit of money when it comes time to sell.
Which would you rather do? Play around in your garage swapping out motor mounts, being able to take a break when you get tired or want to do something else, or sit in a cubicle going over spreadsheets for someone else, having to work a predetermined number of extra hours on your contract? I choose to go play in my garage.
t25torx wrote:jv8 wrote:I think it all comes down to how you view the "work". I personally enjoy the process of getting a car back into great condition. It's not a second job for me. It's not stressful, in fact it's kind of a stress release for me. I'd much rather do that that pick up a side contract IT job. I guess if you're more into the motorsports aspect of cars I can see how this would get in your way a bit, you'd rather focus on porting and polishing, than sanding and buffing a car's finish to get that extra bit of money when it comes time to sell. Which would you rather do? Play around in your garage swapping out motor mounts, being able to take a break when you get tired or want to do something else, or sit in a cubicle going over spreadsheets for someone else, having to work a predetermined number of extra hours on your contract? I choose to go play in my garage.tuna55 wrote:So in your case the question becomes whether or not you want to spend some of your available free time to reduce the cost of your hobby. Personally I view flipping cars as a second job equivalent to moonlight contracting. But I could see people doing it for fun. It's all good! Many ways to skin the cat but in all cases his cars are not "free" as in falling-out-of-the-sky. Time/energy is turning into monetary benefit. I guess I'm with DrBoost and think it's just common sense so why is a blogger making $400K/yr on this. But I guess Dave Ramsey probably makes more than that repeatedly telling people to spend less than they earn!jv8 wrote: I'm all for saving $1 where possible. But the article was about "the man who gets his cars for free". Except they weren't free. He was spending time and energy dealing and repairing cars in exchange for reduced cost of his hobby and transportation. If you enjoy that job - awesome! But I don't see the difference between that and say, spending 20 extra hours per year at your day job paying for the depreciation on your long-term ownership DD. Which method is more cost-efficient just comes down to the $/hr numbers and whether you view dealing/maintenance as fun or work.I wish people would stop thinking that all of us have jobs where more hours equals more pay. My pay rate is exactly the same, if I work 40 hours or 60.
Ding!
t25torx wrote: Which would you rather do? Play around in your garage swapping out motor mounts, being able to take a break when you get tired or want to do something else, or sit in a cubicle going over spreadsheets for someone else, having to work a predetermined number of extra hours on your contract? I choose to go play in my garage.
But that assumes there is no recourse for taking that break.
It's one thing changing the alternator on my toy car, it really is another when it's the main car I use to get to that job of 8 hours a day.
If one does not have the pressure of getting to work every day, on time, etc- it's easy to have fun and not worry about your time.
One other thing- and having seen this happen on this board as well as myself- there's also the risk that you stop having fun, and it does become another job. I have not worked on a car at home for a few years. Just got tired of it. There is a risk of that happening if you ramp up the "value" of the work that much.
alfadriver wrote:t25torx wrote: Which would you rather do? Play around in your garage swapping out motor mounts, being able to take a break when you get tired or want to do something else, or sit in a cubicle going over spreadsheets for someone else, having to work a predetermined number of extra hours on your contract? I choose to go play in my garage.But that assumes there is no recourse for taking that break. It's one thing changing the alternator on my toy car, it really is another when it's the main car I use to get to that job of 8 hours a day. If one does not have the pressure of getting to work every day, on time, etc- it's easy to have fun and not worry about your time. One other thing- and having seen this happen on this board as well as myself- there's also the risk that you stop having fun, and it does become another job. I have not worked on a car at home for a few years. Just got tired of it. There is a risk of that happening if you ramp up the "value" of the work that much.
Yea, you're right. I was going off my situation, I have the truck as a backup vehicle so there isn't any pressure on my build times for cars.
And yeah you're also right about getting burned out. Also I think it can be counter productive to creativity. You get focused on bringing a car back to sellable condition, and you don't get to play around with crazy ideas, like throwing a 3800SC engine in the back of a late 90's Cutlass, because who the hell is gonna buy that for more than you have in it?
In reply to t25torx:
The whole "burned out" thing is why it's valid to put a value on your time when the goal is to flip cars so that you can make money.
It's that gray area that Wheeler Dealer glosses over.
In reply to alfadriver:
I suppose. But I get a lot more burned out on IT work after doing it 40 hours a week that the thought of doing more of THAT, just to play with cars makes me a bit nauseous. I'd rather go ahead and play with them, and get paid to do it.
As is true of anything, moderation is the key.
t25torx wrote: I think it all comes down to how you view the "work". I personally enjoy the process of getting a car back into great condition. It's not a second job for me. It's not stressful, in fact it's kind of a stress release for me. I'd much rather do that that pick up a side contract IT job. I guess if you're more into the motorsports aspect of cars I can see how this would get in your way a bit, you'd rather focus on porting and polishing, than sanding and buffing a car's finish to get that extra bit of money when it comes time to sell. Which would you rather do? Play around in your garage swapping out motor mounts, being able to take a break when you get tired or want to do something else, or sit in a cubicle going over spreadsheets for someone else, having to work a predetermined number of extra hours on your contract? I choose to go play in my garage.
I agree completely (and would make the same choice in your situation).
I guess my point is that you are actively using your knowledge and skills (that not everyone has) to turn your time and capital investment into profit. I would call this a "job" you greatly enjoy... not "living a frugal lifestyle". It's not free cars falling from the sky... or even a frugal choice like what type of meat to buy at the supermarket.
Why did the blogger stop at cars? Why not expand "buy stuff, fix it up, sell at profit" to furniture? How about houses? The frugal blogging possibilities are endless... maybe I should start one.
t25torx wrote: In reply to alfadriver: I suppose. But I get a lot more burned out on IT work after doing it 40 hours a week that the thought of doing more of THAT, just to play with cars makes me a bit nauseous. I'd rather go ahead and play with them, and get paid to do it. As is true of anything, moderation is the key.
I'm more worried that play becomes work.
If people have a really good time flipping cars, as long as one does not lose money, it's a MAJOR win/win situation. Better for them than reading a book or watching TV. That's awesome.
Nothing wrong with that at all!!
(I'm currently into growing food)
jv8 wrote: Why did the blogger stop at cars? Why not expand "buy stuff, fix it up, sell at profit" to furniture? How about houses? The frugal blogging possibilities are endless... maybe I should start one.
Like my previous post- if flipping houses is what you do for fun, and you can make a little money doing it- great!
It's the play vs. work fine line that's the issue.
Watching "the Big Short" - the guy that Christian Bale played CLEARLY had more fun doing that than being a doctor. Why else would one want to spend that much time reading through bonds. I could not handle doing that. Great for him that it made him super rich.
In reply to jv8:
True true, I think the point of the article though is, that "Hey if you can't ride a bike everywhere like MMM, then at least try and make your car a non-depreciating asset." MMM is super not big on cars, so I take it as him trying to say to us guys that like cars and like driving, there's a way to do what we love but not sink our life savings into it.
While we probably aren't the target audience for that article, to some guy out there lusting over a newer M3, it may put the idea into his head to go and look for a $5000 fixer upper M3 over buying a $15,000 perfect condition one, and by investing sweat equity in it come out ahead in the process.
alfadriver wrote: (I'm currently into growing food)
I was just about to ask what you do for a hobby if you've stopped working and playing with cars. How's that working out for you?
In reply to t25torx:
And that's why this article should spawn a few who do the challenge and make a profit. 
Grab an old Lexus in Florida, race it, clean it up, flip, make money.
t25torx wrote:alfadriver wrote: (I'm currently into growing food)I was just about to ask what you do for a hobby if you've stopped working and playing with cars. How's that working out for you?
Very nicely, thank you! Going home and snacking on tomatoes that just ripened that day is pretty awesome.
And having the blackberry jelly I made 8 months ago rocks.
I hope once I sell my race car, I'll arrange some things and actually work on my Miata to restore it.
alfadriver wrote:jv8 wrote: Why did the blogger stop at cars? Why not expand "buy stuff, fix it up, sell at profit" to furniture? How about houses? The frugal blogging possibilities are endless... maybe I should start one.Like my previous post- if flipping houses is what you do for fun, and you can make a little money doing it- great!
I agree... but in that case I wouldn't write a blog article "the man who gets his houses for free" on a frugal living website. I'd just say I love my job!
Regarding car burnout - I guess I'm lucky in that hour-for-hour I'd rather creatively solve problems at work than buff paint. It keeps the garage tinkering fresh and fun.
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