MS Savy People, Please Help... Whats Happening

It's got new plugs and wires (Same i run), and a new Pertronix Flamethrower coil (I run a Blaster 2). Stock FPR.

dansxr2 wrote: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9YltSYEj-5naGVDMjg3eWl2RHc/edit?usp=sharing Datalog https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9YltSYEj-5nZTZtLXZBVUFFWGs/edit?usp=sharing Current Tune

I just went back and looked at this log and have you verified that your TPS is working properly? What happens if you hold it at WOT under load? I would be interested in seeing that. I also am wondering if there is a problem with the turbo / and or the WG. Are you sure of the sizing of the Turbo and that the WG is functioning properly?

dean1484 wrote:

dansxr2 wrote: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9YltSYEj-5naGVDMjg3eWl2RHc/edit?usp=sharing Datalog https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9YltSYEj-5nZTZtLXZBVUFFWGs/edit?usp=sharing Current Tune

I just went back and looked at this log and have you verified that your TPS is working properly? What happens if you hold it at WOT under load? I would be interested in seeing that. I also am wondering if there is a problem with the turbo / and or the WG. Are you sure of the sizing of the Turbo and that the WG is functioning properly?

Thinking about this more how is the WG controlled?

In reply to dean1484: Yes that's exactly what its doing.

Is there a chance that the boost is overcoming the FPR and or the FPR is getting screwy with the addition of boost?

If I am reading the log file rite it looks like the ARF's are staying good and safe when it falls over so probably not an issue.

How is the waste gate controlled?

dean1484 wrote: Is there a chance that the boost is overcoming the FPR and or the FPR is getting screwy with the addition of boost? If I am reading the log file rite it looks like the ARF's are staying good and safe when it falls over so probably not an issue. How is the waste gate controlled?

Boost itself wouldn't be overcoming it. This motor was turbo from factory.

The FPR COULD be faulty due to a bigger fuel pump or just being old in general.

Wastegate is internal, just uses a boost reference line.

I don't feel like we're barking up the right tree, though. If the AFRs are good, then it's probably not fuel related i suppose. The way he describes it, it feels like a misfire and the car is cutting out, not just that it's going flat.

Dan, have you boost leak tested this thing to say... 20psi so?

I am just covering the basics again since I have missed a lot of the middle of the thread. Dan do you have a noid light? Or an old fashion induction timing light? I would put it on a lead. .. . . Hell I would try this on all the leads and see if you can detect any change in the light's flashing as you bring it up to the 4500 mark. Not sure if you could visually see this but worth a shot if you have the timing light. There has to be a way to actually "see" the spark. At least this would confirm that it is actually spark.

I want to know what the total ignition timing is when the issue is occurring.

In driving the MR2 at the moment, but I'll make a new log when I get home and upload a link here. Beginning to sound like I should get a different Turbo... I Really like what what your setup is Ben. Ct26's are cheap and abundant. What would you recommend for a replacemen A 60 Trim T3?

Not necessary Dan. I/we need a log to look at. AND more importantly we need to verify what spark is doing (Vigo may be on to something as well). Is there something in the intake that is restriction things? You et some funky happenings when you accelerate air through small tubes and or through weird corners and what not. What about the intercooler? stock? do you have one? What is its story? I am wondering if you are maxing something out air flow wise in the system in front of the turbo. Have you tried running the system with out anything restricting air flow in to the turbo?

I don't know much about your build but are you absolutely sure of the specs of the turbo that you have? Is it factory or is this a home brew system?

Oh, i forgot something. Post a pic of the intake pipe from the filter to the turbo.

Ok, that's definitely not it. Some people with long unsupported flexible sections have actually managed to suck them closed during high-flow conditions. Not an issue in your case.

On to the timing, then?

I think he needs to get turbo sizing sorted first. I am wondering if he has a turbo that is to small.

It is absolutely not too small. Even the ridiculously small STOCK turbo from an f2t is not too small. Too small of an internally gated turbo would cause boost creep and potentially exhaust reversion until the engine detonated apart from cylinder temps being too high, but it would not cause what is happening.

What's your dwell set at currently? Maybe your coil's saturated.

At 4500RPM, you have a maximum of 6.7ms per ignition event. That has to include dwell time, spark time, and any delay in switching between the 2.

At 5000RPM, that drops to 6ms.

Can you try lowering the dwell time, and reducing the plug gap if need be?

His gap is already way closer than it needs to be. I mean WAY closer.

Dean, the turbo isn't factory. I'm unsure at this point just how much of an upgrade it is over factory, but it's not factory. It IS on a factory manifold, though. Bear in mind i'm just speaking to the motor specifically, as this motor was never available from factory in the MX3.

I'm thinking it's:

1) Ignition settings in MS

or

2) Ignitor E36 M3ting the bed

or

3) Another crap coil.

Not necessarily in that order.

bradyzq wrote: What's your dwell set at currently? Maybe your coil's saturated. At 4500RPM, you have a maximum of 6.7ms per ignition event. That has to include dwell time, spark time, and any delay in switching between the 2. At 5000RPM, that drops to 6ms. Can you try lowering the dwell time, and reducing the plug gap if need be?

Too much dwell isnt going to cause a misfire right away at a certain spot. It will kill the coil though from over heating it.

It also wouldnt be affected by load such that the engine would rev out another 2000 rpm at a lighter load.

OK.

2 more ideas:

The coil is effectively saturated on the datalog I looked at. The MS is managing it proportionally with spark duration. Your max spark duration is pretty low. You can try reducing dwell and increasing spark duration. It appears that acceleration dwell addition is active too, probably because of your slightly choppy RPM signal. So, there's another 1ms added.

Also, have you checked that your rotor is clocked so that the spark can get to the pin on the cap under all ignition timing conditions? If it's off so that low spark advance means that the rotor is no longer in front of the pin, at the very least, you lose spark energy at the plug.

I say scrap the stock ignition and the coil you are using and go to an EDIS setup. Not a sexy ignition system but it is dead reliable and it gets rid of all the potential issues with a cap and rotor and igniters and what not.

I have it running on my 924s for 6 years I think and it has been as reliable as a hammer.

If he's going to spend the money to change up the ignition system, he'd be better off going with LS truck coils so he never has to berkeley with it ever again.

Leafy wrote: If he's going to spend the money to change up the ignition system, he'd be better off going with LS truck coils so he never has to berkeley with it ever again.

That kind of thing hurts a Challenge budget, especially when there's no readily available crank trigger wheel.

Swank Force One wrote:

Leafy wrote: If he's going to spend the money to change up the ignition system, he'd be better off going with LS truck coils so he never has to berkeley with it ever again.

That kind of thing hurts a Challenge budget, especially when there's no readily available crank trigger wheel.

$50 bucks for the coils with a wiring harness and bracket already? Just run them wasted spark.

Or be actually challenge like and use a grinding wheel to cut some notches in the crank pulley, pocket a hall effect sensor at the junk yard when you grab the coils and make a bracket for the sensor out of a piece of an old fender.

I haven't seen the coils that cheap, and i've been looking. Need/want them for the MSM.