My Corvette is Teh Broken

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:

Lugnut wrote:

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: C'mon guys, doesn't anyone know how to use Google? http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2010/02/ls-engine-swap-for-c4-corvettes/

I read that. Definitely too much for me. I would not be able to finish that.

Yeah, as soon as I saw the pictures, I was like "That's no simple bolt in"

Looks like a crapload of that work was done in the name of using a stock LS series AC compressor in the stock LS series location. I'm not saying LS is the only way to go here, you could do a budget 350 build, maybe vortec headed, reusing a lot of stock shortblock parts pushed near their limits for roughly the same money, top it with a properly tuned quadrajet and it would make around 400hp and get decent mileage. OTOH, if you're one of those guys who always wants a little more, once you get the LS wedged in there, the stock shortblock is good for 600-900hp depending on who you ask, before the rods start bending, all of them have a roller cam setup stock, etc.

Go top the oval track swap meets and open up that wallet and let some of the moths out. The fastest 200x$ cars all have cast off oval track parts in them because these boys make cheap reliable horse power. When some jackass promoter changes the rules then the stuff is available for pennies on the dollar.

roller cam 350

pro-topline aluminum heads

professional products single plane port injection intake

knock off accufab 4bbl throttle body fromm ebay

megasquirt

tpis long tube headers

flowmaster c4 exhaust system (have one from an old track car id let go RIGHT)

add lightness

easy 13's, 20+mpg c4 vette.

Ive done tons of these things for customers. megasquirt would be the only difference from what I normally do, which ic convert the TPI stuff over.

also, the crossfire isn't really that bad once you exccercise all the demons. hell, im kinda looking halfheartedly for one to tweak heavily and stuff in my elcamino.

also, use a canton roadrace pan. the stock c4 oil pans SUCK.

do you have to meet emmisions?

Michael.

I do not have to meet emissions or inspections.

so, other than those milage/automatic/et goals, and lack of LS, do you have any requirements to adhere to?

makes it much easier to help you.

i love a 5.3 swap as much as the next lsx fanboi. however, i researched it for my 91 and decided building a 350 is the way to go.

by the time you add up all the swap bits you can have a nice reliable strong 350 that all your accessories fit, and if you go on a trip and break there is nothing custom that you can't get at any pepvancezone.

i love roller blocks and vortec heads. do not assume all 89+ blocks are rollers. most trucks are not, and most of the ones that are not don't even have the cast in bosses for the roller bits. some do with the bolt holes unmachined, which is easy enough, but it's hit and miss. if you go buy a complete core pull the intake.

good point on starting with a later roller motor. A good used 350 Vortec should be under a grand. A new 4 barrel manifold for those heads is around $200. Add a good return type fuel pressure regulator and you're in business for cheap, and making more power.

Ain't your car i want to drive she was than a hotter 2 dollar pistol

novaderrik wrote: your "350hp for stupid cheap" comment doesn't align with your "hunt up a later F.I. manifold" comment... those things just aren't compatible with each other- a factory efi manifold just isn't made to support that kind of power level.. you can do it with aftermarket base, runners, plenum, throttle body, and injectors- but that throws "stupid cheap" right out the window... a modified LT1 intake or an old TPIS mini ram will do it pretty easily, but again, not "super cheap"..

Dang I didn't know the stock TPI stuff was that limited. I figured he could score a whole setup off of an old Camaro for not a lot of cash and still make decent power.

Personally, I'd go with the "rebuild the existing engine" route. It seems through your posts you're somewhat limited in experience. Let's face it, there are few better or cheaper engines (in the US) to learn on than the SBC.

First things first, figure out exactly what's wrong.

titan rebuild linkage

I would rebuild and upgrade what's already in there, including the crossfire setup.

I did google the edelbrock SY1 manifold and i was shocked how great it is. That with a custom top plate and dual TBI would be awesome, BUT...... It wouldn't make much torque at low rpm. That thing has awesome plenum volume, short runners, and large runner CSA. It would scream at high rpms if your throttle bodies flowed enough to keep up with it. But, it would be soft at low rpm, and it would have crappy low-rpm performance with a carb because that huge plenum volume is going to give a crappy 'signal' to the carb and there will be terrible tip-in behavior. You'd probably have to put a truly huge accelerator pump shot on a carb setup to make that thing work right at low rpms.

Im guessing that's not as much of an issue with the stock crossfire manifold. I would stick with the tbi, personally. If you dont like the electronics, run them with a megasquirt or later hacked tbi computer.

How much does a complete LT1 from an early 4th gen run? I know, Optispark, but also good heads and intake, roller, etc.

It seems to me the easiest way to make a car with a 350 in it fast is build a rockin smallblock and carb it. solved. Why make it more complicated than that? There are some WICKED small block chevys out there. Even better, find a built motor that already exists (maybe one thats being replaced by an LS), buy it on the cheap, drop it in.

I can't stand when people take fuel injected cars and toss a carb on them, even the Catch Fire Injection ones. I know it's easy, but it just seems backward. But then again, I hate carbs.

I'd vote for either rebuilding the stock engine and doing an aftermarket MPFI conversion, getting a cheap LT1 )you can convert the Optispark to coil-on-plug if it scares you), or just plop an LS in there.

SilverFleet wrote: I can't stand when people take fuel injected cars and toss a carb on them, even the Catch Fire Injection ones. I know it's easy, but it just seems backward.

Oh, you mean like this?

vetteracer92 wrote: itty bitty small blocks? stuff in a big block

What this guy said.

Or you could put a truck 5.3/6.0 liter engine in it, and get all of the weight of a big-block but without as much cylinder head or displacement and therefore power. It would be one thing if a big block wouldn't fit, but given that the thing was DESIGNED to fit a big-block then it is a no brainer. Find a 454 core, rebuild it with a 496 crank (because more is always better), some half-decent heads and intake and carb, and a NICE cam, and you'll be making way more power than the same money in an LS swap. And it would have a lot more style.

The nice light engines are NOT the $800 truck engines, they're the $4000 Camaro/GTO/Corvette engines.

Knurled wrote:

vetteracer92 wrote: itty bitty small blocks? stuff in a big block

What this guy said. Or you could put a truck 5.3/6.0 liter engine in it, and get all of the weight of a big-block but without as much cylinder head or displacement and therefore power. It would be one thing if a big block wouldn't fit, but given that the thing was DESIGNED to fit a big-block then it is a no brainer. Find a 454 core, rebuild it with a 496 crank (because more is always better), some half-decent heads and intake and carb, and a NICE cam, and you'll be making way more power than the same money in an LS swap. And it would have a lot more style. The nice light engines are NOT the $800 truck engines, they're the $4000 Camaro/GTO/Corvette engines.

Two things: There are aluminum 5.3s, and do the iron ones really weigh as much as a big-block? That seems hard to believe.

Tom_Spangler wrote: How much does a complete LT1 from an early 4th gen run? I know, Optispark, but also good heads and intake, roller, etc.

there is a complete running and driving 94 Caprice with a trans that won't shift past 2nd gear for $600 on one of the MN Craigslists.. this gets you an LT1 with the better cast iron heads..

Tom_Spangler wrote: Two things: There are aluminum 5.3s, and do the iron ones really weigh as much as a big-block? That seems hard to believe.

The iron blocks are TANKS. Granted, this is why they take so well to boost, but still, it's silly overkill for most applications.

The value of the aluminum 5.3 has gone up significantly now that engine builders have figured out that they can be overbored and turned into replacement blocks for LS1s, which are getting thin on the ground. Last L33 I priced out was $1800. (OUCH) I couldn't even find an LS1 within 500 miles.

Knurled wrote:

vetteracer92 wrote: itty bitty small blocks? stuff in a big block

What this guy said. Or you could put a truck 5.3/6.0 liter engine in it, and get all of the weight of a big-block but without as much cylinder head or displacement and therefore power. It would be one thing if a big block wouldn't fit, but given that the thing was DESIGNED to fit a big-block then it is a no brainer. Find a 454 core, rebuild it with a 496 crank (because more is always better), some half-decent heads and intake and carb, and a NICE cam, and you'll be making way more power than the same money in an LS swap. And it would have a lot more style. The nice light engines are NOT the $800 truck engines, they're the $4000 Camaro/GTO/Corvette engines.

WHOA WHOA WHOA

LQ4 (the $800 truck engine) - 520 lb,http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/793839-lq4-complete-weight.html

427 - 680 lb stock, http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/1415039-what-does-a-complete-454-engine-weight.html

C4 available engine options - 350 only, http://www.vettehistory.com/c4/

Just to summarize, the big block was not designed to go there and weighs well over 100 lb more.

Pick up your phone, LS Juan and Manuel Transmission are calling.

Tom_Spangler wrote: How much does a complete LT1 from an early 4th gen run? I know, Optispark, but also good heads and intake, roller, etc.

i'd go with LT1 plus GM "Hot Cam" kit. matched to a good torque converter, you'll be a happy man.

It's making some unhealthy noises and was noticeably down on power. I'm still not sure what's wrong. Didn't really have time to go over it this weekend. I may have to have it brought somewhere for diagnosis and/or rebuild.

My experience is all stuff on the outside of the motor. I'm like level 2 support :) I have a deeper skillset than the, "I know how to change a flat tire and check my oil," but less than, "Just pull the engine and tear it down, no sweat."

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll let you know what I come up with, but so far I am leaning toward rebuilding the motor with an eye toward performance, see how to get 300-350hp out of it. That should get me roughly where I want to be, performance-wise.

I feel your pain. My experience and skillset is probably just a touch under yours. More than oil changes, but nothing close to engine swaps. With that in mind, the only advice I'd have is to realistically think about the goals. Not just in 1/4 mile times, cost, etc... But how much time do you have on your hands to do work? Keep in mind you'll be going slower than most people here. Do you have all the tools you'll need? How long can/will you wait to get the car back on the road? Would it be better to have someone else do it, or at least some parts of it? I've been trying to do a straight engine swap...no modifications, just a straight pull and drop, for over a year now. I don't even have the first engine out. The reasons are all the questions I posed above...huge lack of time, little skill, light on tools, etc...