Which of these two would you pick to tow a 36 ft and 9,000 lb trailer?
https://trucksinlouisiana.com/2011-chevrolet-silverado-2500hd-work-truck-walker-la-70785/7253106
https://trucksinlouisiana.com/2013-chevrolet-silverado-2500hd-work-truck-walker-la-70785/7258487
The diesel obviously has more power, but the gas engine has a sparkling service history on the carfax.
The diesel also has a much stronger transmission in it than the gas truck.
The 2011 is a first year LML truck. I'm always kinda scared of first model year changes. I realize that 250k is a solid starting point and likely means that it was a well cared for truck, but it still scares me. At least it doesn't have the fuel dilution issues of the previous engine.
The LML is a great engine but the emissions devices MUST be maintained, and the CP4 fuel pump is a sticky wicket. The CP4 can disintegrate with low-sulphur diesel and cause fuel injector problems, which can be rather expensive. A lift pump goes a very long way to keeping the fuel pump safe, and it is recommended to use a lubricity additive at fill-ups.
I actually have my own 2011 2500HD diesel listed for sale here, though I'm considering keeping it as a dedicated tow rig.
Like to pretty much exclusively tow the trailer? I don't know any specifics about these trucks but all else equal you want the diesel, specifically to not have to deal with wrangling 60+ feet of truck and trailer through a car sized gas station.
In reply to brandonsmash :
Thanks! Yep, the CP4 is a disaster. First thing I would do is address it.
Diesel
dps214 said:Like to pretty much exclusively tow the trailer? I don't know any specifics about these trucks but all else equal you want the diesel, specifically to not have to deal with wrangling 60+ feet of truck and trailer through a car sized gas station.
I'd never considered that as a purchasing decision, but you're completely right. Every once in a while I try to use a car sized station to refuel the rig and it's no fun at all. But that would be your life all the time with a gas truck.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Check service records. If there's no evidence of addressing the CP4 (in order of preference: replacing it with a CP3, installing a lift pump, at least using an lubricity additive) I'd be a little leery.
Keith Tanner said:I'd never considered that as a purchasing decision, but you're completely right. Every once in a while I try to use a car sized station to refuel the rig and it's no fun at all. But that would be your life all the time with a gas truck.
On the big interstates that get lots of RV trailer traffic there are usually stations with big lanes that have both diesel and gas, but yeah. Big fuel tanks are nice to minimize the number of times you need to take the trailer to the gas station!
Diesel, hands down.
Tell me about the trailer. Are we talking a flatbed with a couple miatas on it? Is it a 5th wheel? Gooseneck? Travel trailer?
Flatbed, gooseneck, or 5er, a 3/4 will do if you're not racking up a ton of miles everyday. Travel trailer? No way I would put anything more than about 30-32' of billboard behind something that isn't a dually.
My first rule of towing a travel trailer is to never use the tow capacity of the pig to determine what is enough.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Keith Tanner said:I'd never considered that as a purchasing decision, but you're completely right. Every once in a while I try to use a car sized station to refuel the rig and it's no fun at all. But that would be your life all the time with a gas truck.
On the big interstates that get lots of RV trailer traffic there are usually stations with big lanes that have both diesel and gas, but yeah. Big fuel tanks are nice to minimize the number of times you need to take the trailer to the gas station!
The RV lanes do certainly exist but they're not super common. In a year and a half of towing with the rv all over most of the east of the mississippi area and a couple of trips to lincoln we never managed to encounter one organically. But every truck stop in existence has truck diesel lanes.
Diesels make more power and burn less fuel but...
They stink, make a horrible racket and you can't work on them without getting absolutely filthy.
Diesel costs more than gas, you need to keep gloves in the truck if you want to put fuel in it without smelling afterward and the parts are expensive.
I've had two diesel tow rigs and I went back to gas.
ShawnG said:Diesels make more power and burn less fuel but...
They stink, make a horrible racket and you can't work on them without getting absolutely filthy.
Diesel costs more than gas, you need to keep gloves in the truck if you want to put fuel in it without smelling afterward and the parts are expensive.
I've had two diesel tow rigs and I went back to gas.
Most all of that is true for 90s/early 00s diesels but modern ones are as quiet and odorless as anything else. Not sure where the truck in question in this thread falls on that spectrum.
Newer diesels don't make a lot of noise. My 2010 is quite pleasant to be around. Even the exhaust - catalyzed, of course - has a nice sweet smell.
I find towing much more relaxed with the diesel quietly grumbling away in the background than with a gas engine jumping from gear to gear and revving hard to move the load.
As for the cost relative to gas, that flips back and forth. Sometimes gas is less than diesel, sometimes more. About the only thing I've noticed is that diesel pricing tends to be more consistent across the country than gas, probably because a large number of diesel customers will adjust their fueling strategy and skip filling up in expensive states.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Came here to say this regarding cost. Depending on your state's taxation on fuels, diesel is a fuel savings. I can get 20-22 mpg empty in the Duramax, but I'm lucky to get 14 mpg in my 1/2 ton gas. Since diesel is nowhere near 40% more in my state, diesel saves me a truckload of money. Add in the fact that my gas truck makes 340 lb-ft, and the Dmax makes 765 lb-ft, it's kind of a no-brainer for towing.
Most diesels these days you can't even hear them when you're beside them at a stoplight. People only hear the loud ones, and likely assume that (since they can't hear the quiet ones) they're not even registering as being a diesel vehicle.
Also, don't forget resale value.
Buy a gas truck for $20k, drive it for 10 years and 200k, and sell it for $5000
Buy a diesel truck for $30k, drive it for 10 years and 200k, and sell it for $25,000. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but diesels don't depreciate much at all.
Back in the day, I bought a gently used 7.3 Powerstroke truck for $10k. I owned it for 5 years and put 100k on it. Over the years I collected about $3000 in insurance checks because my wife liked to put dents in it. i pocketed the money instead of fixing dumb little dents. I sold it for $7300 and the buyer was so skeptical because it was too cheap to be true. I owned it for five years and lived in 4 states and took it from 60k miles to 160k miles without a single penny for anything other than maintenance, and I made more selling it than I paid for it.
Do the necessary DD on what happens when you buy a used Duramax. Then add 5k for injectors, even if this is not the model . . .
In reply to rustomatic :
That was only the early LB7 models, all of which have already been fixed on someone else's dime. If you happen to find a 2004 Dmax that isn't completely wasted, it wouldn't matter a hoot.
Ever since the LLY/LBZ, the injectors have been bulletproof. They will likely outlast the rest of the engine. 400+k is pretty common for LMM and LML
It's so interesting to me that even GRMers like ourselves still cling to myths about diesels that have been debunked for 40 years.
No, they're not noisy anymore
No, they don't belch black smoke and kill fish anymore
No, they're not smelly anymore
Yes, as of 2008, they have to conform to the same emissions profile as gas trucks, so they're not destroying the ozone layer or harpooning whales.
Yes, they're incredibly reliable and long-lived
Yes, they sip fuel in comparison
No, they aren't slow
Yes, they start in sub-zero temperatures just as easily as a gas car, sometimes easier
Yes, they require more oil, but you'll get all that money back tenfold when you sell the truck for about the same as you bought it.
No, they won't suffer if you use them for short trips. Newer emissions equipment will suffer and it's a real bummer for the 2008-2012 range of diesels, but they're getting much better.
Even the much-maligned Olds diesel from the 70s and 80s was a fantastic engine. The problem was Olds' poor choice of head bolts. They stretched and caused head gasket failures, and the factory repair TSB told techs to replace the head gasket and re-use the old bolts. Their plan was to just throw a few dollars at it in the hopes it would last long enough to make it out of warranty. If you replace with quality studs, the Olds 350 diesel is a screwdriver and bigger turbo away from 400hp and 25+ mpg. (Ok, not quite that easy, but close)
If even a tenth of the myths about diesels were true, why would every trucking company still use them? Why would they retain their resale value better than nearly anything on the road? People just seem to be scared of them, but really most people who are afraid of going diesel have never owned one, or they did own one that was one of the "bad" ones. I would never choose to ditch my Dmax for a gas truck for towing, and it makes a really dandy daily. The ability to smoke the tires at 65 on the highway is pretty fun, too. Drive a newer truck with gas, then drive one with a Dmax. If you end up thinking the gas truck is better for towing, I don't know how to sleep tonight :)
Sincerely,
someone who drank the diesel kool-aid for good reason.
You'll notice that the pickup truck diesels that are any good are made by someone else.
Dodge - Cummins
GM - Isuzu
Ford - Ford screwed the pooch when they tried building their own diesel. Find one old enough to still have an International diesel in it. They might be better now but people have a long memory.
I still have my '89 F250 with a 7.3 IDI. It's all the things I hate about diesel but it's reliable as gravity.
Our former tow rig was a 2000 7.3 Powerstroke. That thing would pull a house down.
Current tow rig is a 2019 Silverado 6.2 with the Max Tow package. It does everything I need and sips fuel when it's empty. It's rated to tow 13,500 I don't know if I'd go over about 10 with it.
ShawnG said:Ford - Ford screwed the pooch when they tried building their own diesel. Find one old enough to still have an International diesel in it. They might be better now but people have a long memory.
Hm. From what I can tell (having not owned them), the bad ones are the 6.0 and 6.4, both of which were Navistar (which appears to be a rebranding of parts of International). The post-2011 trucks have the 6.7 in-house engine, which does not seem to have the horrible reputation of the two previous ones.
Very happy with my 2021 F-250 w/ 6.7, but it's only got 25K on it.
I was told the 6.0 and the 6.4 were Ford's own design
If I'm wrong then I stand corrected.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:ShawnG said:Ford - Ford screwed the pooch when they tried building their own diesel. Find one old enough to still have an International diesel in it. They might be better now but people have a long memory.
Hm. From what I can tell (having not owned them), the bad ones are the 6.0 and 6.4, both of which were Navistar (which appears to be a rebranding of parts of International). The post-2011 trucks have the 6.7 in-house engine, which does not seem to have the horrible reputation of the two previous ones.
Very happy with my 2021 F-250 w/ 6.7, but it's only got 25K on it.
Yes and no. The International/Navistar 6.0L and 6.4L are both insanely wonderful engines, but Navistar screwed the pooch when they put substandard EGR coolers, oil coolers, and two years of a head bolt boss that was a bit weak if you went much over 30 psi boost.
But the 6.0L and 6.4L are actually the go-to for performance/drag/pulling/dyno of the Ford world. The first one I saw break did so on a dyno while it was making 2100+ lb-ft at the rear wheels. The engines themselves are great, and if you get one that has been "bulletproofed," it's a remarkably stout and reliable piece.
I find it interesting that people associate the 6.0L and 6.4L with their terribleness, or the Olds diesel with it's easily-fixed head gasket, or the Duramax with it's early injector failures.... but if you talk about a Triton Ford like a 5.4L, no one thinks they're a bad engine because the exhaust manifolds crack, the COPs die and are expensive to replace, or they have heads with spark plugs that either never come out or self-eject. I'm over here like... wait... we think the 5.4L is good.... but all Duramaxes are bad? Because a three-year run of them had "bad" injectors that still lasted twice as long as coil packs on a 5.4?
Diesel really has a perception problem. I don't get it.
Thought I'd put a bow on this. Here's my answer. 2012 F250 XL 6.2L gas. 135k miles, one owner, extensive service records. Runs great, body is a 10 footer. Work truck, so rubber flooring and all. Rated to tow 12,500lbs.
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