OneJay
OneJay None
10/15/13 1:26 p.m.

Hi all,

Anyone else plan to campaign one of these next season? Seems like it should be a great budget competitor.

I'm still a bit of a noob to Miatas and autocross setup, I've only been racing the Miata this last year, and my old car was an SC300 that was bumped into SM and was way too big and heavy.

My current setup is:

-2000 Miata LS with factory Torsen and 5 speed

-205/50/15 Dunlop Z2s on stock wheels

-RB 1.25in FSB with support blocks

Future plans may include:

-Alignment. Not too sure about specs here. I'm thinking around -1.5 to -1.8 degrees of camber all around, and a 1/8in total out in the front. Zero toe in the rear.

-Bilstein HD shocks. Only $100 per shock from Tirerack. Sweet.

-Bumpstops - No clue here

Seems like it should be a pretty solid competitor, but I wanted to get some input from people more versed in Miatas. My main two concerns are the alignment, bumpstops, and the front sway bar. The bar is for an NB2, and is 1/8in thicker than the RB NB1 bar. Understeer is noticeable in sweepers, but I may be able to dial it out with an alignment and bumps stops.

Just need some input on where to go next. I'm not looking to be nationally competitive, but it would be nice to trophy in some local events. I've usually been finishing in the bottom third of RTR, and about midpack in overall PAX.

Cheers!

kylini
kylini New Reader
10/15/13 3:25 p.m.

I'm one of the lucky few to own a 1999 Sport, but I'm not that great of a driver (next year will be my 3rd full year) and I have a roll bar added for future track use (and with it, am debating about STR just for seats).

Here's what limited, worthless experiences I have:

1) My Miata maxed out at -1.5 degrees camber in the front on one side. I've seen comments stating that a stock Miata will only get -1.3 so I might be lucky. I've also seen comments that say I should get much more up front and should get a new lower control arm. Whatever you do, I recommend getting the most camber out of the front as possible, don't worry too much about sacrificing caster, have LESS camber in the rear, and set your front toe to 0, rear toe in by 1/16". I used to run 1/2 a degree more camber in the rear but the car understeered and had issues accelerating out of turns until I realigned the car. At -1.5 in the front, I wore the insides this year with too much highway driving and wore the outsides last year with too much autocross, so c'est la vie.

2) I'm glad you have the mount support blocks. Using the 1.125" Racing Beat tubular bar, I just ripped my stock sway bar mounts off the frame (adding grippier brake pads contributed). If you are starting to build an autocross car, BUY AND INSTALL THE COMPETITION MOUNTS. It's much easier to do when you're changing the bar in the first place and the stock mount will die eventually: the question is when.

3) For shocks, Koni Yellows are a solid go-to choice. As long as you have the correct spring perch (Koni sent me the wrong one for my used shocks despite providing photos), they're easy to install and only require drilling a washer. Your Bilstein HD choice will have a better ride quality, but it might not be the best at slaloms. Bilsteins are preferred by Fat Cat Motorsports for revalving, but it's not much cheaper for them to use an existing set of shocks (they make and revalve awesome Miata shocks for stock autocross and more). My Konis definitely transformed my car as my stock shocks were... aged.

4) For bumpstops, get Fat Cat Motorsports' offering for the NB. They make them for Koni or Bilstein (different shaft size) and, given how much we ride on our bumpstops, they make a difference in stability after transition. I used white/red in stock size. Some people shave them to increase shock travel length before hitting them.

5) When doing the suspension, try to get a feel for your bushing age. My car feels very sloppy compared to a similar car with replaced bushings. While we aren't allowed to go stiffer, I'm sure a new set of OEM rubber bushings from Mazdaspeed Motorsports would really help things out on my car. Doing these at the same time as your shocks will make your shock install easier (more work off-car) and give you a chance to clean/POR-15 your control arms.

6) I don't understeer with the 1.125" bar and more camber in the front than rear. You already have a better bar than stock, so it might not be worth the extra cash.

7) Don't buy HP+ for all 4 corners of the car. While I was able to stop locking up the fronts after one event, the rears had more braking available to them. I wound up installing Tire Rack non-Hawk $50 performance pads in the front to match the HP+ in the rear, but won't autocross them until next year due to said sway mount break.

8) Don't get a roll bar. I wish I didn't, but I'm very interested in track and it's the price of entry.

OneJay
OneJay New Reader
10/15/13 5:42 p.m.

Thanks for the input!

I guess I'll just have to see what kind of camber I can get out of the stock adjustment. I'm hoping for a decent amount.

I'll probably do the Bilsteins over the Konis because they're going to end up being more than 40 bucks cheaper per corner. I probably would do more harm than good playing around with the adjustments on the Konis anyway, haha.

I hadn't even thought about brake pads. I do lock up the front from time to time, so maybe slightly grippier pads in the rear would be something to look into.

And bad news, I already have a roll bar. I do drive the car on the street every day, and take it on nice weekend drives through the mountains, so I decided I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. (Don't worry, it's properly padded as well) I'll gladly take the weight penalty in exchange for the rollover protection.

Thanks again! Anyone else have any other suggestions?

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 SuperDork
10/15/13 9:22 p.m.

I've got a 99 Base that I've autocrossed off and on a few years. Just got it back from my daughter. Already has RB front anti-sway bar, Bilstien HD shocks, the Flying Miata alignment specs, CarboTech brake pad, a Magnaflow Catback, Corbeau FX1 Pro seats and Harddog Hardcore bar. I too plan some track work with this in the future. Also already had the swaybar mount break and replaced both of them and added the support brackets inside. Seem to be holding well. Know other that also use the same support brackets. I'm still running 14" rims and have a set with Hankook R-Comps, now to find a class I can run them in. Have the stock hollow alloys with a set of Ziex 512's on them and a set of NA daisys with worn out Ziex tires, the R-comps are mounted on a set of Kosei lightweight rims. Future mods will be springs. Thinking of going Ground Control coil-over when I make the jump. Would like to add Koni adjustables at that time but don't think the budget will allow. Too many other projects around and according to my daughter, the Miata might need some bushing work in the front. I haven't driven it very far since I got it back.

OneJay
OneJay New Reader
10/16/13 2:21 p.m.

Sounds like the seats would put you into STR, but if you wanted to run the slicks, you'd go up to CSP I believe. The ground control setup with Konis I've heard is the go-to setup for ST for those that don't want to spend thousands on fancy shocks.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
10/16/13 2:24 p.m.

IMHO in general Konis are worth the extra $40 per shock over Bilsteins.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
10/16/13 2:33 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote: IMHO in general Konis are worth the extra $40 per shock over Bilsteins.

In a stock class where you're not allowed to change springs, perhaps. They're really good at jacking Miatas down and making it ride on bump stops, putting your effective spring rate through the roof. (Which is why these guys run Konis)

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
10/16/13 2:46 p.m.
Swank Force One wrote:
93EXCivic wrote: IMHO in general Konis are worth the extra $40 per shock over Bilsteins.
In a stock class where you're not allowed to change springs, perhaps. They're really good at jacking Miatas down and making it ride on bump stops, putting your effective spring rate through the roof. (Which is why these guys run Konis)

Even with swapped springs, I would buy Koni's over Bilsteins anyday. No particular experience with them in Miatas but in general, I have found I prefer Koni's over Bilsteins.

oldsaw
oldsaw PowerDork
10/16/13 3:10 p.m.
OneJay wrote: Sounds like the seats would put you into STR, but if you wanted to run the slicks, you'd go up to CSP I believe. The ground control setup with Konis I've heard is the go-to setup for ST for those that don't want to spend thousands on fancy shocks.

Before you get too deep into this, start with the rulebook and the list of classes. It seems your car is still pretty stock so the new Street class is a natural fit.

If you go with lower springs or coil-overs, you're in STR. If you want to run r-comps, you're in Street Prepared and you have to use DOT-approved tires. If you want to run slicks, you're looking at Prepared or Modified because slicks are not DOT-approved for highway use.

IIRC, CSP is still the assigned class for Miatae.

kylini
kylini New Reader
10/16/13 8:26 p.m.
oldsaw wrote: IIRC, CSP is still the assigned class for Miatae.

That and E-Street now!

OneJay
OneJay New Reader
10/21/13 11:13 a.m.

Looked again, turns out Konis are ~$80 per corner more than the Bilsteins. Booo!!!

Also, any tangible benefit to converting an LS to a Sport? The car is my DD, so I would keep the AC, PS (since they were options), but I could take advantage of the slightly stiffer springs, and front strut bar. The leather seats I think would be fine under C&C, and I could save a few pounds taking out the wind blocker. I'm thinking most of the advantage would be the removal of the AC and PS, which I would be keeping anyway, so it might not even make a noticable difference.

kylini
kylini New Reader
10/21/13 11:59 a.m.
OneJay wrote: Also, any tangible benefit to converting an LS to a Sport? The car is my DD, so I would keep the AC, PS (since they were options), but I could take advantage of the slightly stiffer springs, and front strut bar. The leather seats I think would be fine under C&C, and I could save a few pounds taking out the wind blocker. I'm thinking most of the advantage would be the removal of the AC and PS, which I would be keeping anyway, so it might not even make a noticable difference.

2000 Miata Package Options

There is no "sport" package for the 2000 but you could order the "suspension package" on top of the LS package (or, for that matter, any 00+ non-SE Miata). To convert, you would require/gain:

  • 168/124 spring rates (up from 162/118)
  • 12 mm rear sway bar (up from 11 mm)
  • strut tower brace bar (slightly improves 65 mph shimmy)
  • Torsen LSD (LS already has)

You do not need to change any appearance options (air dam/spoiler/steering wheel/etc.) like the 99 does. You do have the option of removing the AC and ABS, but dumping the windblocker requires switching to a non-convenience package base model to be 100% legal; I'd just leave it.

Regarding manual steering: 1) only the 99 can have it, and 2) you really want power steering for autocross.

OneJay
OneJay New Reader
10/21/13 12:27 p.m.

In reply to kylini:

Awesome thanks for the info!!

Looks like that conversion should be pretty straightforward, as long as I can find all the parts. Not sure how big of a difference a few pound of spring and a mm of sway bar will make, but if I can find good deals on those parts, it may be worth it.

dparaho
dparaho
12/27/13 11:02 a.m.

Not to revive an old thread but well I guess I will. Is it certain that the NB Miata is moving to E-Street? I've seen a lot of dicsussion about it but nothing spelled out in the rules, including the latest issue of Fasttrack. Maybe I missed it in a prior issue?

moxnix
moxnix Reader
12/27/13 11:05 a.m.

Yes the nb except the 03 club sport is moving to es for 2014.

dparaho
dparaho New Reader
12/27/13 11:18 a.m.

Thanks for confirming.

OneJay
OneJay New Reader
1/9/14 2:19 p.m.

Update: Got an alignment but they could only get to -1.1 deg on three wheels, and -0.9 on the drivers front. On average, it's about half a degree better than before, and now the toe is even (it was in on one side and out on the other). I may end up taking it somewhere else if I want to try for more camber.

Alignment sheet is here: http://nb-estreet.blogspot.com/2013/11/alignment.html

For shocks and bump stops, and I'll probably end up going with Bilsteins, since the Konis are almost twice the cost. Also, it looks like the Fat Cat bumpstops can be found other places as well, under generic names for about half to 2/3rds the cost. I'll just have to make sure I find the right length and diameter. Stiffness looks to be the same (red-white-blue, soft-med-hard).

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