Need some advice (Mustang/Corvette content)

Hey all,

I'm at a bit of a crossroad right now, I'm not sure what I want to do with my Mustang. The Mustang in question is a 1996 GT 5-speed convertible. It's a little underpowered now but that 4.6L Modular engine has some potential for power.

I already have a daily driver that I'm quite happy with so the Mustang has been mostly for hoonage and I was planning on building it into something that I could drag race and maybe autocross.

But now I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I'm not in love with the Mustang's looks, and it being a convertible means I'd have to put a decent bit of money into a roll bar before I could even track it. Plus the handling is kinda sloppy and the seats leave a lot to be desired.

Everything in the Mustang works, it's rust-free, and it has a clean title, so I figure I could get up to $2000 for it, though maybe less since it has 184,000 miles and faded paint. This is what it looks like now:

It's been really reliable in the time I've owned it, but I want something with a hard top and popup headlights. Something with a big rear hatch would be rad too, so I can transport wheels and tools to the track.

So that's what I wanted to ask about. For drag racing and some occasional track days/autocross, what would be a good car in a similar price range? It has to be beater-priced, something I won't feel bad wrecking. Ideally something with decent power and a healthy aftermarket. I don't really care about auto vs. manual, as long as it's a car where the transmission can be easily swapped. Something with a pushrod engine would be ideal, so I can keep it simple. V8 is an absolute must.

I don't really want a Fox body, despite their proven competence at the drag strip. They're far too common and I'm not in love with the way they look. I've looked at F-bodys, but I hate the way the old Camaro looks, and most Firebirds that I see are V6's in horrible condition.

My ideal would be a C5 Corvette coupe, but even with a salvage title most of those are out of my price range. Though maybe if I bought one at a salvage auction...

The C4 Corvettes are real cheap at this point, but their interiors are absolutely godawful, especially those awful digital clusters. And aren't the LT1 engines kind of a pain?

I love the look of the C3 Corvettes too, but most of the cheap ones are too far gone to be a track car, I don't want to deal with a full frame-off restoration at the moment.

Part of me says to just buy a 1994-1995 Mustang GT coupe, since those have the 5.0L engine which has a lot more mod potential.

What are your thoughts, guys?

My buddy has a 1990 C4.   First year of the new analog dash, second to last year of the L98.   So a 90/91 might work for you.  

I have a hatchback Fox 5.0, which sounds perfect for you but you said you don't like them.   I like the 94-95 5.0 idea, but they lost the hatch and don't really have any more space than your convertible.   Maybe hold out for an L98 (5.7) 3rd Gen F-body?   The 4th gens are better cars all around, and in 98 got the LS1, those might work too.   

SEADave said:

My buddy has a 1990 C4.   First year of the new analog dash, second to last year of the L98.   So a 90/91 might work for you.  

I have a hatchback Fox 5.0, which sounds perfect for you but you said you don't like them.   I like the 94-95 5.0 idea, but they lost the hatch and don't really have any more space than your convertible.   Maybe hold out for an L98 (5.7) 3rd Gen F-body?   The 4th gens are better cars all around, and in 98 got the LS1, those might work too.   

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Either a 90+ C4 or an F-body of some kind. Is it easy to get more power out of an L98? I don't know too much about the GM engine designations, I've always seen them all as either 305's or 350's.

In reply to dannyzabolotny :

L83 had 205 hp.  1984 only.

L98 is 5.7 litre/350 TPI FI .  230 (1985) to 245 hp stock.  Low revving torque motor...330-350 ft lbs.  Long and small plenum runners choke down hp but help torque. Cam, carb conversion and headers can get you 325+ hp.

LT1 motor came out in 1992 with improved FI and 300 hp.  Complaint is optispark ignition

LT4 was 330 hp in 1996.

All 350 ci.

Old school SBC horsepower is relatively.cheap, even by ford 5.0 standards, especially since LSx craze has hit

Have you ever driven a c4?  I'm not a corvette guy but my old $500 c4 I picked for challenge last year has surprised me as a really competent chassis for its era.  Of course it was running like crap so that didn't help. And I'm a Porsche 911 guy.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to dannyzabolotny :

L83 had 205 hp.  1984 only.

L98 is 5.7 litre/350 TPI FI .  230 (1985) to 245 hp stock.  Low revving torque motor...330-350 ft lbs.  Long and small plenum runners choke down hp but help torque. Cam, carb conversion and headers can get you 325+ hp.

LT1 motor came out in 1992 with improved FI and 300 hp.  Complaint is optispark ignition

LT4 was 330 hp in 1996.

All 350 ci.

Old school SBC horsepower is relatively.cheap, even by ford 5.0 standards, especially since LSx craze has hit

Have you ever driven a c4?  I'm not a corvette guy but my old $500 c4 I picked for challenge last year has surprised me as a really competent chassis for its era.  Of course it was running like crap so that didn't help. And I'm a Porsche 911 guy.

Thanks for the info! I'm fine with getting rid of TPI and going to either a carb or a modern EFI system. I live in Arizona where the emissions tests are a joke and it's super easy to loophole around them by registering a car in a non-emissions zip code. There are no visual inspections here either.

I like the idea of having something that's based on a 350 due to the abundance of stroker kits and superchargers.

I've never driven a Corvette of any kind, to be honest. I've always liked the way they looked but I've never known anybody with one, all my car buddies have BMWs or Porsches. I'm sure a Corvette of any C4+ era would drive better than my Mustang, haha.

In reply to dannyzabolotny :

Fellow Mississippian Pete Gossett here went out and bought an old c4 after I invited him to join our challenge team last year...after only doing 2 AX runs at challenge in a poorly prepped c4.  He has ax'd several years in several Miatas and fwd cars...he even had a lotus europa for a while!  Whatever that says.  He says it reminds him of a big, torquey, wide miata if you can believe that.

My c4 has a trashed engine so we're bringing his c4 to challenge next week.

Stop it! I just weaned myself off the C4 idea and was thinking swapped FC Rx7 lol

In reply to dannyzabolotny :

I think you're undervaluing your car. That sounds like a $3500-$4500 car anywhere from the Midwest down to the coast. 

Ill mention that the hatch on the C4 isn't very practical or roomy. You also have to lift whatever you're loading up & over about a foot of tail-end of the car. That said, I've heard of people putting 2 wheels/tires in the hatch, 1 in the spare tire carrier underneath, and another in the passenger seat, so it's definitely possible to haul a set of track wheels & tires with you. 

If you don't want be a cheap-ass like me, $3500-$4500 should also buy you a somewhat decent running/driving C4. It'll have problems, and it'll still need $$, but you won't be spending nearly a year making it useable like I have. 

Don't rule out automatic Vettes either. With their torque it isn't really a downfall. Besides, the 4+3 of the early cars isn't very highly regarded, while the later 6-speed cars generally demand a premium. 

If he wants to drag race usually autos are preferred anyway if that's his main thing and autox his side thing

Foxbody is the answer, if you dont like the mustangs cosmetics how about a thunderbird, fairmont, ltd, etc. I prefer the look of the 79-86 capri/mustang too the aero nose cars.

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to dannyzabolotny :

I think you're undervaluing your car. That sounds like a $3500-$4500 car anywhere from the Midwest down to the coast. 

Ill mention that the hatch on the C4 isn't very practical or roomy. You also have to lift whatever you're loading up & over about a foot of tail-end of the car. That said, I've heard of people putting 2 wheels/tires in the hatch, 1 in the spare tire carrier underneath, and another in the passenger seat, so it's definitely possible to haul a set of track wheels & tires with you. 

If you don't want be a cheap-ass like me, $3500-$4500 should also buy you a somewhat decent running/driving C4. It'll have problems, and it'll still need $$, but you won't be spending nearly a year making it useable like I have. 

Don't rule out automatic Vettes either. With their torque it isn't really a downfall. Besides, the 4+3 of the early cars isn't very highly regarded, while the later 6-speed cars generally demand a premium. 

Maybe I should sell the Mustang online then. I had it listed locally a few months ago for $2000 and I got no interest at all... though right now it might sell better because it's starting to be convertible season in Phoenix. The convertible market here is the opposite of most places— nobody wants a convertible in the summer because it's 115º, but in the fall and "winter" it's much more pleasant, with daytime temps between 70º-80º. The AC works great though, I drove it plenty in the summer with no issues.

Regarding the hatch on a C4, it's more for the looks than anything, I love the way hatches look on sports cars. I'm okay with an automatic Corvette— I'm not dead set on a manual, especially since drag racing actually favors an auto. Burnouts are easier with an auto as well, though I've had a good time doing them in the manual Mustang as well.

That being said, how difficult is it to swap in a T-56 into a C4? I assume there are minimal electronics to worry about, given the age of those cars.

In reply to dannyzabolotny :

The stock transmissions bolt to a brace that connects it to the differential. So in addition to tailshaft/driveshaft length, you may need to shorten/lengthen that bracket, then figure out how to mount it to the T-56. 

The ZF is the 6 speed that was introduced in the late 90s as the manual to replace the 4+3? How much does those cost to swap in?

Actually introduced around 89 iirc.  A zf 6 speed adds around $1000 to  price of used c4.

Pricey to convert because of availability.

Probably easier and more  cost effective to find a 6 speed car to begin with.

And that is the cheaper way to get that trans. A good muncie costs that much and then you must Install it. Now if you can Fab the work you may beat the cost down but GM spent millions to do it so their way is best. but again a 700r4 IS a good tranny. 

Hm okay, so the general consensus is to find a manual car. That certainly makes the search a bit pricier, especially since I don't want the weird 4+3 setup that the earlier cars had.

My ideal car would be a 92+ C4 with a 6-speed, but it seems like a lot of them are still kinda pricey. I guess I'll set my budget once I sell the Mustang and the 1987 Porsche 944S that I've had laying around for a while. If I can scrounge up $4k from both that would be rad, but I doubt it... the Porsche hasn't ran in years and has a rebuilt title.

In the meantime I started looking at some of the 94-95 Mustang GT's. They're not the body style I want, but they're cheap, can be found with a manual, and have the earlier 5.0 pushrod engine that has a lot more aftermarket support and can be stroked pretty inexpensively.

On the other hand, an LT1-based C4 has more power in stock form than a 94-95 GT, along with a much better suspension and better brakes. Better seats too, from what I've seen. And the C4 has some cool factor in terms of appearance, whereas the SN95 just looks cheap. Both weigh about the same, so power to weight is certainly in the C4's favor. And the C4 can be used for more than just drag racing, whereas an SN95 needs a fair bit of work to handle well.

Doing car stuff on a budget sucks, haha.

I feel like I want a non basket case manual trans car for HPDE track work but I don't know about finding deals on the 6speeds. (If I go c4) I actually like the idea of the sbc simplicity and options in the future

Jaynen said:

I feel like I want a non basket case manual trans car for HPDE track work but I don't know about finding deals on the 6speeds. (If I go c4) I actually like the idea of the sbc simplicity and options in the future

FWIW 18 months ago  I found a 92 c4 6 speed track car on corvetteforum.com for $6000.  Not the best cosmetics but Still street legal but sorted with cage, upgraded brakes/suspension a built fresh 383 car built motor.  It had languished in for sale classifieds for a year with an original ask of $17k but he kept reducing price. I was seriously considering but had to come to reality that subsequent to my stroke I really couldn't do justice to the car.

There are track bargains on c4s but you gotta be patient.  Nice unmolested cars command higher prices in the c4 world.  But since c5s have come down in price there are those with c4s that wanna step up.  Gotta expand your search geography and have cash ready.

And whether nice street cruiser or track rat initial asking prices on c4s are super inflated.  More so than all other hobby cars in my opinion.

But keep in mind the General only built 358,000 c4s so they're out there...just gotta find the one's  that right for your itch.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

Jaynen said:

I feel like I want a non basket case manual trans car for HPDE track work but I don't know about finding deals on the 6speeds. (If I go c4) I actually like the idea of the sbc simplicity and options in the future

FWIW 18 months ago  I found a 92 c4 6 speed track car on corvetteforum.com for $6000.  Not the best cosmetics but Still street legal but sorted with cage, upgraded brakes/suspension a built fresh 383 car built motor.  It had languished in for sale classifieds for a year with an original ask of $17k but he kept reducing price. I was seriously considering but had to come to reality that subsequent to my stroke I really couldn't do justice to the car.

There are track bargains on c4s but you gotta be patient.  Nice unmolested cars command higher prices in the c4 world.  But since c5s have come down in price there are those with c4s that wanna step up.  Gotta expand your search geography and have cash ready.

And whether nice street cruiser or track rat initial asking prices on c4s are super inflated.  More so than all other hobby cars in my opinion.

But keep in mind the General only built 358,000 c4s so they're out there...just gotta find the one's  that right for your itch.

Yeah, I want a car that isn't a total basket case. Like a track car that I can use for all sorts of racing, not just drag racing. And I want something that I won't be ashamed to be seen in, maybe something with paint on it.

I'm cool with buying cars out of state and flying out for a good deal... I did that with a friend to get a 2002 BMW 540i wagon in Denver for $2000, way cheaper and better than anything I could find in Phoenix. The cars in Phoenix may be rust-free, but they're really ragged out and beat up here.

Good point on the asking price too. A lot of the nicer C4's are owned by old men who never drove them and feel like they're worth a premium for that. I guess once I have some cash in hand I'll start low-balling every C4 seller.

If I was able to increase my budget to around $5000, that would open the door to some pretty decent facelift C4's. Time to list the Mustang and Porsche, and we'll see what happens.

I feel like a C4 would be the right move for me long term. I might pay more for a C4 than for a Mustang, but I'll have a far better platform to start with.

I did a bunch of work on an 88 TPI/4+3 c4 somewhat recently. It's miles ahead of your Mustang as a track car (and i've driven a mustang EXACTLY like yours but with a 5.0, it was still weak as delivered). I agree with you about the interior for the most part so going 90-up and getting analog gauges and a 6spd is a VERY good idea. If you go new enough to get an LT1, even better as those are actually fast vs torquey but still kinda slow (as the TPI c4s are). 

FWIW there was an 84 c4 on corvette forum with  c5 aluminum LS1 and t56 swap about 6 weeks ago for $5k.  Looked nicely done.  Guy even transplanted c5 dash in it.  It sold pretty quick..

About 2 weeks.

Vigo said:

I did a bunch of work on an 88 TPI/4+3 c4 somewhat recently. It's miles ahead of your Mustang as a track car (and i've driven a mustang EXACTLY like yours but with a 5.0, it was still weak as delivered). I agree with you about the interior for the most part so going 90-up and getting analog gauges and a 6spd is a VERY good idea. If you go new enough to get an LT1, even better as those are actually fast vs torquey but still kinda slow (as the TPI c4s are). 

Yeah, I'm going to try for an LT1 with a 6-speed. More money to buy those but it'll have 300hp versus 200hp for an early C4. I'd probably end up spending the same amount of money trying to make a TPI C4 as fast as a stock LT1 C4 anyways.

So I'm selling the 96 Mustang, the 87 Porsche 944S, and also selling the 03 X5 4.6is. I should have enough to buy a half-decent LT1 C4 with a 6-speed. I found two locally that could probably be had for around $5k:

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/d/1994-corvette/6339478629.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/d/1995-corvette-6-speed/6304345385.html

Red on black is my favorite combo, I love red cars.

Yeah I would probably be all over a swap or prebuilt car like that we will see what my budget is come decemberish.

Ill make sure to post a shopping thread so I can get all of your help finding the right one :P

I really like the late c4 square lights etc

I have to say this black on black one looks niiiice

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4s-for-sale-wanted/3882929-1992-corvette-383-stroker-415-hp-zf6-manual-trans.html

Jaynen said:

Yeah I would probably be all over a swap or prebuilt car like that we will see what my budget is come decemberish.

Ill make sure to post a shopping thread so I can get all of your help finding the right one :P

I really like the late c4 square lights etc

I have to say this black on black one looks niiiice

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4s-for-sale-wanted/3882929-1992-corvette-383-stroker-415-hp-zf6-manual-trans.html

Man, that is nice! $9k is way out of my budget though, there's no way SWMBO would approve that, especially when you consider that my daily driver only cost $5k. Plus I don't want a turnkey track car, I want something that I can build on my own, that's half the fun right there. 

I'm definitely committed to getting an LT1 C4 at this point. I couldn't live with the older style interior, plus the extra power is nice and will keep me happy for a little bit before I start tearing into the engine.

Yeah its out of my budget too but it looks cool :P