mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to JG Pasterjak :
You know what though, the near stock cars aren't keeping the mind bendingly awesome ones from being built and raced. This makes the world better in every way.
Agreed. This also gives us a great path forward for the Corvette into 2019. We really wanted to integrate real aero into that car, since there are good "off the shelf" pieces available. But there's almost no place to use real aero without turning something into a gutted race car.
Ransom said:JG Pasterjak said:It's basically CAM for everything plus real aero. Color me very interested.
Literally five minutes before I stumbled onto this thread I was googling "scca cam for import cars". I still have the tab open.
I want to build what I want to build, and I want to autocross it. Hope this sort of thing grows and spreads westward...
Except Spec Miata is on a whole different level cost-wise compare to autocross.
I am unlikely to do a HPDE until I have a car I don't care about stuffing into a wall. Until that happens, I don't see the point of HPDE.
z31maniac said:ProDarwin said:z31maniac said:Interesting.
That's one of the reasons I've never try AutoX vs just doing HPDE. $60 for 6 45-60 second runs, and then I have to spend half the day baking in the parking lot?
I'd rather pay $120 and get 5-6 20 minute HPDE sessions.
Apples and oranges. One is a competition, one is not
And? If I cared about "competition" I wouldn't do HPDE and just go buy a Spec Miata and call it a day.
For me it's about $$$ to run time ratio, as I'm sure it is for many others.
For maximum $$$ to run time ratio simply drive your car on the highway.
My point is that people prefer different things. Its all too often that people come into an autocross thread and E36 M3 on it with some useless comparison of how they get more minutes per $$$ on track. Why compare the two?
It would be like someone posting in every thread you've created regarding your next purchase to "just buy 12 miatas instead of a 135i/Camaro/etc." (I know this happens and I know it bothers you)
In reply to Ian F :
I am guessing you are replying to a different thing... Which you'll then notice, edit, and this comment here will make no sense. Oh well.
Trackmouse said:So if you bring a 4 seater Japanese car from the 80’s with a v8 swap, where does that place you?
Probably in GTV
GTV – 1989 and older 4 seat coupes and sedans, including C1-C3 Corvettes and AMX
Engine swaps don't seem discouraged. Going too "lightweight" seems frowned upon...but 90% of stock curb weight seems to encourage all to drop 10% of weight which is quite a bit.
Start with a Pinto and small 4cyl. Add in a heavier V8 and then still get the car down to 10% less than the 4cyl version
John Welsh said:Trackmouse said:So if you bring a 4 seater Japanese car from the 80’s with a v8 swap, where does that place you?
Probably in GTV
GTV – 1989 and older 4 seat coupes and sedans, including C1-C3 Corvettes and AMX
Engine swaps don't seem discouraged. Going too "lightweight" seems frowned upon...but 90% of stock curb weight seems to encourage all to drop 10% of weight which is quite a bit.
Start with a Pinto and small 4cyl. Add in a heavier V8 and then still get the car down to 10% less than the 4cyl version
Careful! it's 95% not 90%, that's a 170lb difference in my case! now the question becomes, where does one find a reputable case for what the curb weight should be?
assuming they follow optima USCA rules I think 4-6 cylinder swaps keep the car in the SC classes but v8's will bump you to a GT class
What is the real difference between these classes and the street modified classes in autocross? Otherwise, both classes allow unlimited drivetrain, require most of an interior, and include fairly liberal aero. The tire difference is pretty big but competitive cars are going to be trailered in anyway. Every SCCA region I know has a street modified + street tire class already anyway. Somehow SM is a class people try to avoid because it is too expensive but everyone gets excited about this.
ojannen said:What is the real difference between these classes and the street modified classes in autocross? Otherwise, both classes allow unlimited drivetrain, require most of an interior, and include fairly liberal aero. The tire difference is pretty big but competitive cars are going to be trailered in anyway. Every SCCA region I know has a street modified + street tire class already anyway. Somehow SM is a class people try to avoid because it is too expensive but everyone gets excited about this.
I think it's only really in SCCA where you see folks trying to avoid SM, wander around an Optima/Time Attack/One Lap type event and you'll see paddocks full of SM candidate type builds. What the SCCA SM class makes up for in fairness is also it's biggest detractor to a typical hotrodder type. Unlimited boost on a built is allowed but you can't drop in a junkyard LS? things like that (which in fairness may have changed, it's been a few years since I flipped through the SCCA Street Mod class rules)
These rule sets take away a bit of that fairness that the large rule book of an SCCA event would have but adds in more creativity.
What? You can’t use the federal 595RSRRR ???
I think this is awesome, but I'd can't be a [competitive] competitor. As a competitor, the rules are good, they keep things affordable. As a spectator, this is wonderful though.
klodkrawler05 said:
Unlimited boost on a built is allowed but you can't drop in a junkyard LS? things like that (which in fairness may have changed, it's been a few years since I flipped through the SCCA Street Mod class rules)
The rules changed this year. Now going to a different manufacturer is an extra weight penalty. Minimum weight is calculated by displacement. A 6 liter motor with a turbo is going to be over the highest minimum weight for the class so the penalty doesn't really matter.
I am a fan of the Street -> Street Touring -> Street Modified upgrade path in autocross. At each stage, you end up with a car that is drivable on the street and somewhat more uncomfortable. I don't quite get the frankenstein cars in Street Prepared and the extreme lightweight cars in Prepared.
My one real complaint with the Optima rules is that the widest tires are only available in 18" and 19" sizes. That means $1600 for a set of tires and a fairly expensive set of wheels just to start competing. I picked up 6 tires and an extra set of wheels for my autocross car for about $1200 this winter.
I wonder why the hardon for SA helmets?
In reply to Bobcougarzillameister :
Probably insurance.
Ian F said:Ransom said:JG Pasterjak said:It's basically CAM for everything plus real aero. Color me very interested.
Literally five minutes before I stumbled onto this thread I was googling "scca cam for import cars". I still have the tab open.
I want to build what I want to build, and I want to autocross it. Hope this sort of thing grows and spreads westward...
Except Spec Miata is on a whole different level cost-wise compare to autocross.
I am unlikely to do a HPDE until I have a car I don't care about stuffing into a wall. Until that happens, I don't see the point of HPDE.
This was an autocross in Edmonton at Westmont mall in the early 80s. This vw rolled over and the same event had a pantera get put on a curb.
ojannen said:The rules changed this year. Now going to a different manufacturer is an extra weight penalty. Minimum weight is calculated by displacement. A 6 liter motor with a turbo is going to be over the highest minimum weight for the class so the penalty doesn't really matter.
I am a fan of the Street -> Street Touring -> Street Modified upgrade path in autocross. At each stage, you end up with a car that is drivable on the street and somewhat more uncomfortable. I don't quite get the frankenstein cars in Street Prepared and the extreme lightweight cars in Prepared.
I hadn't heard! That's pretty cool news! It always struck me as plenty mental that SM required same/related manufacturer for a swap, since that does nothing to make a swap simpler or more cost-effective by itself. I do wish they didn't still require stock suspension pickup points. I know rules are difficult, but it's always seemed so weird to me how close they'd get and then do something to make it not quite work (for me), whether it's CAM's "anything goes, as long as it's American" (wha?) or Street Mod's "*most* of the mods you wanted to do, any of the expensive bolt-ons you want to buy, and you can change pickup points, but only those for mounting the top of Mac struts..." Seems like by the time a car is Street Mod enough to be competitive, tinkering with subframe mods shouldn't make it any less streetable, or significantly more expensive or time consuming to build. But move those points, and now you're tossed in against cars which don't have to be livable or even legal on the street...
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
DUH! Don't know why that didn't hit me.
ProDarwin said:z31maniac said:ProDarwin said:z31maniac said:Interesting.
That's one of the reasons I've never try AutoX vs just doing HPDE. $60 for 6 45-60 second runs, and then I have to spend half the day baking in the parking lot?
I'd rather pay $120 and get 5-6 20 minute HPDE sessions.
Apples and oranges. One is a competition, one is not
And? If I cared about "competition" I wouldn't do HPDE and just go buy a Spec Miata and call it a day.
For me it's about $$$ to run time ratio, as I'm sure it is for many others.
For maximum $$$ to run time ratio simply drive your car on the highway.
My point is that people prefer different things. Its all too often that people come into an autocross thread and E36 M3 on it with some useless comparison of how they get more minutes per $$$ on track. Why compare the two?
It would be like someone posting in every thread you've created regarding your next purchase to "just buy 12 miatas instead of a 135i/Camaro/etc." (I know this happens and I know it bothers you)
I think the highway thing is a poor comparison for the sake of making a strawman.
It's poor $$$ to run time in a controlled environment where I can put my car through it's paces. So it is a valid comparison if you want to go drive your car at 10/10ths.
And I said, this new format intrigues me because of the additional seat time and not having to shag cones. All the track guys I know that used to, or don't do autoX anymore, always cite the $$$$ to run time.
mazdeuce - Seth said:In reply to Bobcougarzillameister :
Probably insurance.
Also, that's what you really want when you've got a caged ride.
Im very interested in this. Sounds less tiresome than dealing with SCCA rules. Could be a fun way to test builds.
In reply to Fitzauto :
this has always confused me. If you're just headed out to test what works/doesn't, or to have fun why do the rules set of the SCCA become tiresome? Throw it in XP, go have fun and call it a day. Not everything has to be an argument in life.
In reply to Stefan :
mines not caged.... and if I crash I die anyway so...... yeah keeping my mug looking pretty isn't high on my priorities! lol
In reply to Bobcougarzillameister :
Is Indy SCCA assisting running the event at Grissom?
In reply to minivan_racer :
Not that I'm aware of. We have an event the previous weekend at the State Fairgrounds.
John Welsh said:A place to run a Q45 with a manual transmission swap, big brake kit and lowing springs!
you know, you're not going to be that far away from the first event the week before... and I know of good/free hospitality "in the area"... plus Dusterdb13
Expect to see the MG at the Peru and Gateway event in GTN. It's street legal and weighs 100% of a published 1978 MG midget. Aero will be tweaked compared to DMod setup though . Ground rubbing skirts and fully duckted difusser. Stupid big wing.
I may have to add a sucker fan though. They were dumb and didn't outlaw it
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