New Cars Suck - Part II

So I've sort-of wrapped my thinkin' sphere around the concept of getting a new car.  And not just a "new-to-me" car, but a _brand new_ car.  I'm going to get off the crotchety train and deal with touch screens and whatnot, and even decided there's a few cars that don't look horribly objectionable.  So, with that in mind, I've test driven a few.

In order (so far) the test subjects included a diesel 6M/T Chevrolet Cruze hatch, a Mazda 3 Hatch (2.0L 6M/T), and a Civic 1.5T hatch, also 6MT.  There was noticeable turbo lag in the Chevy and Honda, and that, coupled with the really sweet shifter in the Mazda 3, makes that one my favorite driver.  The rear seat in the Cruze had pretty terrible headroom; the 3 and Civic hatch were acceptable.  Controls in all 3 seemed reasonable, though I liked a few little things about the Mazda better than the other 2.  The Cruze is a big ??? in my book for reliability, and the Civic seemed cost-cut in a lot of ways.  

My main gripe with the Mazda at this point is the existence of one car I have not yet driven- the Sportwagen.  Since we have 2 kids, a dog, and my current driver (a '91 Volvo 240 wagon) gets used as a hauler a lot, I really like the extra space in the VW.  The 5M/T would probably be more to my liking than a 6 speed, and from everything I've read the tech on the VW is fairly minimalist and driver ergo good.  

My problem is VW reliability.  It seems like people either have hair-pulling-out troubles with VeeDubs, or they run for 500,000 miles with nothing more than routine maintenance.  I have two friends who have bought newer VW, and neither has really had any trouble with them.  

What does everyone here think?  Should I give the Sportwagen a shot?  Is the 1.8T a solid engine?  Or should I go back to the Mazda dealer, armed with the knowledge that a new 3 is coming out in 2019, and try to score a deal on a 2018 and just accept the smaller cargo capacity?  

Rant:  Why, oh why, does no other automaker sell a real compact station wagon???  If there were such a thing as a Mazda 3 wagon, I wouldn't even be typing this right now.  The VW is literally the ONLY compact wagon in the game right now.  

>My problem is VW reliability.

It's not 1998 anymore, VWs are actually pretty reliable.

/thread

I've never owned a VW...for very good reason.  Reliability.  I know they have their fans, and that's awesome.  I know they're fun to drive, that's great.  But I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.  I'd go Mazda every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

Yes, wagons are a rare breed, especially small ones.  The new Regal wagon looks cool, but it's not small and I've read mixed reviews on it.

EDIT: I disagree with the previous post.  VW reliability is not any better than it was years ago...from the things I hear at work, it's as bad or worse.

My Jetta was good for 90k miles. That included 2 separate front end collisions.

Im confused in the rear seat headroom in the Cruze... my buddy has one and I fit fine in it. :shrug:

In reply to Klayfish :

It's also $10,000 more than the 3, uses more fuel, and is not available with a manual.

I keep telling myself, 90% of the time my Volvo 240 hauls me and a bunch of air, so the 3 hatch should be fine.  Buy a roof rack and a Class II hitch for the other 10% of the time.

Mrs. VCH is on board with pretty much anything, and has mentioned that it would be nice to have something we can take the kiddos around in that isn't her Suburban.  Pretty soon kiddo #2 won't need to be rear-facing, so the back seat of the 3 should be big enough.  

Ranger50 said:

My Jetta was good for 90k miles. That included 2 separate front end collisions.

Im confused in the rear seat headroom in the Cruze... my buddy has one and I fit fine in it. :shrug:

Ideally, I'd like something that goes for about 200k on routine maintenance.

I'm 5'10".  My head hit the headliner in the back of the Cruze.  It fit fine in the Civic and 3 (and presumably would be fine in a Sportwagen).

volvoclearinghouse said:

 

Rant:  Why, oh why, does no other automaker sell a real compact station wagon???  If there were such a thing as a Mazda 3 wagon, I wouldn't even be typing this right now.  The VW is literally the ONLY compact wagon in the game right now.  

Compact SUV's and small CUV's are why.  People are far more likely to buy them than a wagon, so it's a pretty easy choice.  

An Escape is basically a tall Fusion wagon, and it sells in WAY more many units than wagons ever did.

In reply to alfadriver :

So, funny story- the Mazda CX-3 has LESS room than the 3 hatch.  And is more expensive.  And uses more gas per mile.

I did briefly entertain a Kia Niro, as it's a more "wagonny" CUV, but the DCT gives me pause, and I think they're slower than my 240 wagon.  

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

And I'm sure more people buy them, too.  

Consumers are odd....  But we work to what they want to buy.

volvoclearinghouse said:

Ranger50 said:

My Jetta was good for 90k miles. That included 2 separate front end collisions.

Im confused in the rear seat headroom in the Cruze... my buddy has one and I fit fine in it. :shrug:

Ideally, I'd like something that goes for about 200k on routine maintenance.

I'm 5'10".  My head hit the headliner in the back of the Cruze.  It fit fine in the Civic and 3 (and presumably would be fine in a Sportwagen).

From what I know about the Cruze the VW might actually be a better car in long term reliability.  My wives Beetle has been fantastically reliable only real service issue is the oil condition sensor going out in the last couple months and she drives that car hard. 

If it wasn't for odd consumers, the New Beetle never would have made it off the drawing board. And yes, the CX3 outsells the Mazda 3. Even my contacts at Mazda seem a little surprised at that. It's not a wagon, it's a tall sporty hatch.

If the CX3 is too small, add 2 and try a CX5.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

I only made 90 because of dieselgate. Besides crashes, I just did two sets of tires and filter and fluid changes. Never put any other money in it but fuel.

red_stapler said:

>My problem is VW reliability.

It's not 1998 anymore, VWs are actually pretty reliable.

 

/thread

 

Not so! Says my friend with a less-than-ten-years-old Eos and diesel wagon, both of which have had massive fuel system bills over the past twelve month.

My coworker has a new Golf. He bought that after driving an '03 Golf N/A (I forget specific engine sizes) to 220k miles. The big issue that I've seen with the Golf is simply serviceability, as there's no central jacking location for a floor jack. You have the 4 corner seam welds to lift from and that's it, which requires an actual vehicle lift or quick jack. Or you do this weird teeter-totter lift method that'd make an OSHA inspector cry.

Other than that, those cars punch WAY above their price range in fit & finish and drivability. He's also getting nearly 40mpg on the way to work with the 1.8T + 5spd manual.

If you want reliability - get a mazda. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Yep, I talked to the salesman at the Mazda dealer (who was great, BTW- dealer "feel" at the Mazda was definitely above the Honda and Chevy) and he said the CX-3 and -5 are over half of what they sell.  

The CX-5 isn't a bad looking tall wagon/ small SUV.  

I put about 20K a year on my commuter vehicle.  So fuel economy is a selling point.  I really want to do significantly better than my Volvo, which is about 24 mpg.  Plus, if we piss off the wrong Arab nation sometime in the next 2-3 years, I'd like to have a buffer against that.  

I also want to add that my Jetta was starting to suffer from various interior rattles that I had been led to believe wouldn’t happen. I should have smelled the crayons first...

All in all, it was a fancy diesel crapalier/cobalt/escort.

Out of all the listed options I'd get the 3 hatch.  The 1.8 tsi drives really nicely but not worth it if you're always worrying about it.  Also the vw wagons are priced higher than they should be.  Can you even get a base trim wagon? When I looked the wagons were all loaded out. 

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I put about 20K a year on my commuter vehicle.  So fuel economy is a selling point.  I really want to do significantly better than my Volvo, which is about 24 mpg.  Plus, if we piss off the wrong Arab nation sometime in the next 2-3 years, I'd like to have a buffer against that.  

Can you quantify "better"? How much are you willing to spend to save money on fuel? For example, going to 40 mpg from 24 will cut your annual fuel usage by about 330 gallons. That's just under a grand a year at $3/gallon. If it goes to $6/gallon you'll save about $2k/year. But that's assuming you can get to 40 mpg. In reality, the difference between the most efficient Mazda 3 (32 mpg) and the 2WD CX5 (28 mpg) is only 90 gallons/year. The CX3 seems to pay a 1 mpg penalty over the Mazda3.

Mazda has been on a tear with the CX5 of late, introducing new variants every six months. I suspect - haven't checked - that this means the "old" ones are suffering pretty extreme depreciation. If you pick up a 2016.5, the purchase savings will probably pay for a lot of fuel.

In reply to 8valve :

cars.com shows some base Sportwagens, 5MT, for around 20k.  The Mazda dealer, given that the 3 is an outgoing model, is willing to deal at under 17k for a Sport trim 3 hatch with the 6MT.

Having not driven the VW yet, I also may not like the turbo engine.  That was a strike against the Civic and Cruze, after all.  

Friend with a 2016 Sportwagen base model 5MT has about 30k on it and has had a very minor coolant use issue which the dealer couldn't find.  The other friend has a 2016 Golf GTI with about the same mileage, and 0 issues.  

I just did the new-thing with a Pacifica, but for a utility hatch for myself, that decidedly cannot be new, I think an xB might be the easy button. For new, I think the 3 is the right choice. have you tried the Elantra GT?

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I've run the math and I know that even a 50 mpg vehicle won't offset just driving the 240 (@24 mpg).  I know a mpg here or there is in the noise.  

Part of the analysis here is unquantifiable, subjective, and non-rational.

1) I like the look of the 3 Hatch better than the CX-5

2) I would like driving something I can tank up once a week (as opposed to twice, now)

3) I prefer driving a manual transmission car

4) On the VW vs Mazda thing, The fact that VW is a huge multinational automaker that's thumbed it's nose deliberately at laws is a strike against it in my book.  The fact the Mazda's are somewhat niche and I don't see a 3 hatch every time I turn my head is a plus for it.  

Like I said, tack another 12" onto the back of a Mazda 3, change nothing else, and we're not even having this conversation.  

The VW dealers around here are throwing $8k+ discounts on 2018 model Sportwagens and Alltracks, which has me looking at selling the CR-V  for whatever reason. That, plus the new 6-year, 72k mile warranty means you can keep your VW for a while longer before you ditch it just before the warranty expires 

*edit- I'm not sure if it's possible to option these cars like this, but if you go for one, find a manual transmisison and spend the extra ~$600 up front for the lighting package. The halogens are nearly as bad as on a jeep, and the manual will save you north of $1k on the purchase price!

tuna55 said:

I just did the new-thing with a Pacifica, but for a utility hatch for myself, that decidedly cannot be new, I think an xB might be the easy button. For new, I think the 3 is the right choice. have you tried the Elantra GT?

You guys just bought a new Pacifica?  

The Elantra goes from 40 mpg (hwy) in the sedan to a shocking 32 mpg (hwy) in the GT.  In all other metrics the 3 seems comparable or better.  And, having come of age when the Excel was a thing, Hyundai's still have a bit of "Korean car stink" about them.  I know that's totally irrational and the front end of the GT is a handsome, almost Audi-esque thing, but that's my mentality.  

Oh, and the new Toyotas are GOOFY looking as all get out.  Same reason I won't touch a new Fit.  Gah.  Thems be some poor cars hit HARD by the ugly stick.  

In reply to sobe_death :

Yes, the 6/72 warranty on the VW is enticing.  Problem is, at my current driving pattern (which is unlikely to change) that's more likely to be a 3.5/72 warranty.  And I ain't trading in a 20k car in 3-1/2 years.  

So, to summarize where we are so far:  The Mazda 3 is a car I really really want to like, but have small reservations about, and the VW Sportwagen is a car I'm really really afraid I'm going to like, and it's going to bite me in 6.1 years and/or 73,000 miles.