New Cars Suck - Part II

mad_machine said:

yupididit said:

NGTD said:

drainoil said:

NGTD said:

Do you live where they use salt?

I just looked at a 75k km (45k miles) Mazda 3 that has literally no rear fenders and seriously compromised sills. I mean like 3-4 inches of the rear fenders gone to iron oxide.

I won't even look at Mazda's because of this. Many of the Japanese brands aren't much better, but Mazda is the worst. The European brands and the North American brands are much better, in general.

I concur! Many Mazda’s in my area with rust around rear wheel wells and rockers. 

This is not uncommon.

berkeleying move!

I have not seen that much rust since the 70s

I haven't seen that much rust since this morning.

I bought a Volvo because they have rustproofing NAILED.  I WANT a Mazdaspeed6, or even maybe a Mazdaspeed3 if the deal is good enough, but I'd like to own a car for more than one or two winters before scrapping it.  E46 BMWs are not immune to rust, either, which precludes that M3 fantasy from becoming reality.

Sorry, too tired to read the whole thread.  

Is Focus ST on your list?

they're pretty heavily discounted these days, like in the $18s vs a $26 MSRP.  Two guys at work have them, and they seem to be a riot to drive.

mad_machine said:

yupididit said:

NGTD said:

drainoil said:

NGTD said:

Do you live where they use salt?

I just looked at a 75k km (45k miles) Mazda 3 that has literally no rear fenders and seriously compromised sills. I mean like 3-4 inches of the rear fenders gone to iron oxide.

I won't even look at Mazda's because of this. Many of the Japanese brands aren't much better, but Mazda is the worst. The European brands and the North American brands are much better, in general.

I concur! Many Mazda’s in my area with rust around rear wheel wells and rockers. 

This is not uncommon.

berkeleying move!

I have not seen that much rust since the 70s

Go to upstate NY - this is a fairly common sight and pretty much doesn't matter what brand it is. 

I don't see this as much in PA due to the fact the car would have failed inspection for rust perforation long before it got this bad so the car is either fixed, junked or sold to a New Yorker. 

AngryCorvair said:

Sorry, too tired to read the whole thread.  

Is Focus ST on your list?

they're pretty heavily discounted these days, like in the $18s vs a $26 MSRP.  Two guys at work have them, and they seem to be a riot to drive.

It’s like we share a brain. And I’m wondering if they’re a “big turbo” away from gapping an RS.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

I pretty much crossed the Ford off my list.  I had heard/ read about head gasket issues on the Focus.  That, coupled with Ford's eliminating it's non-Mustang car lineup after this year makes me question how well it'll be supported in, say, 7 years.  

Knurled. said:

STM317 said:

Is manual required for this exercise? Next question: Why? I mean can you actually enjoy a manual on your lengthy daily commute or is it just cruising?

 

Some people have a visceral need to always be in the wrong gear at the wrong time.

Unrelated to anything, and questioning my ability to properly drive a car.  Thanks!  

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to AngryCorvair :

I pretty much crossed the Ford off my list.  I had heard/ read about head gasket issues on the Focus.  That, coupled with Ford's eliminating it's non-Mustang car lineup after this year makes me question how well it'll be supported in, say, 7 years.  

You know ford only keeps parts around the federally mandated minimum? Good luck trying to find parts for an 11 year old ford product. Unless it crosses over to one built 10 years ago, the parts have been destroyed

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to AngryCorvair :

I pretty much crossed the Ford off my list.  I had heard/ read about head gasket issues on the Focus.  That, coupled with Ford's eliminating it's non-Mustang car lineup after this year makes me question how well it'll be supported in, say, 7 years.  

I'm not sure the ST really fits with your other considerations. It has a bit more hp and a bit less fuel economy. That being said, the headgasket issues were just the RS model with the 2.3 Ecoboost right? I haven't heard anything about widespread issues with the ST. And, if it makes you feel any better, Ford is planning on keeping a version of the Focus around, it's just going to be a slightly lifted Subaru Crosstrek competitor that's made in China.

STM317 said:

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to AngryCorvair :

I pretty much crossed the Ford off my list.  I had heard/ read about head gasket issues on the Focus.  That, coupled with Ford's eliminating it's non-Mustang car lineup after this year makes me question how well it'll be supported in, say, 7 years.  

I'm not sure the ST really fits with your other considerations. It has a bit more hp and a bit less fuel economy. That being said, the headgasket issues were just the RS model with the 2.3 Ecoboost right? I haven't heard anything about widespread issues with the ST. And, if it makes you feel any better, Ford is planning on keeping a version of the Focus around, it's just going to be a slightly lifted Subaru Crosstrek competitor that's made in China.

So, underpowered, unnecessarily complex, trendy, high center of gravity, and built by the lowest bidder nation?  *thumbs up*

And, yeah, if I wanted something that got high-twenties for miles-per-gallon I'd buy a Pacifica.  

In reply to mad_machine :

Good night.  I went through that with my last Dodge.  It needed a steering coupler and there were exactly 2 left NOS at dealers in the whole country.  

I think your best bet is to get a used CX-5 with stick shift. 16 was the last year of production. I had one and it was a great vehicle. I avged 32-35 mpg in it. I'm not crazy about the newer CX-5's but ymmv.

Here are other new options w/stick shift:

Hyundai Elantra GT Hatch

Toyota Corolla Hatch

Kia Soul (base engine w/manual only but at least one is available)

Mitsubishi Outlander Sport (base engine w/manual)

Subaru Forester & Crosstrek (I think you said Subies are out due to friend's experiences with head gaskets)

Honda HR-V and Civic Sport Hatch

Jeep Compass and Renegade (I think you can get manual in more than more than base config.

I know they are on the smaller side but Chevy Sonic Hatch and Nissan Versa Note hatchback.

My CX-5 was totaled in May and I actually looked at a Golf Sportwagen. It was a nice car but it sold from under me.

I've seen Golf Sportwagens 2wd and 4Motion for new for stupid low prices. I ended up getting a Versa Note Hatch and really like it. 

poopshovel again said:

It’s like we share a brain.

I've read some of your posts and often thought you were running on only half a brain - and I think you got the good half!

I don't get the people questioning your need for a manual trans. For me auto is not an option. I had an hour plus commute for over 20 years and never owned an auto vehicle in that time and I would never own one. I can't make a recommendation and I'm glad I'm not in your position. I can't think of anything that meets your parameters that I think I would want to DD

You can also get a KIA Forte5 turbo with a stick.

In reply to Suprf1y :

It's like automakers go out of their way to make everything just a little bit wrong, isn't it?  Or maybe it's me, maybe I'm just weird...

No, it's them.  

volvoclearinghouse said:

Knurled. said:

STM317 said:

Is manual required for this exercise? Next question: Why? I mean can you actually enjoy a manual on your lengthy daily commute or is it just cruising?

 

Some people have a visceral need to always be in the wrong gear at the wrong time.

Unrelated to anything, and questioning my ability to properly drive a car.  Thanks!  

It's called a joke, like how 24-way power seats just give you more leeway in being uncomfortable.

Maybe it is me but I don't see a lot of rust except on older trucks. I live in upstate NY where the salt causes slush which is slipperier than the snow.

frenchyd said:

 

Most of the motels have had outlets on their parking lot lights because winter here is brutal and it’s better to spend a couple of dollars so guests can plug in their car heaters and have the car start in the morning rather than have their waiting rooms jammed with guests who’s car failed to start. 

 

Funny story, I was once traveling to upstate NY on business in the dead of winter.  I was staying at a small local mom-and-pop place that my company OK'd and I liked.  Sort of a bed-and-breakfast but no frills.  Anyway, I wake up one morning and it is 2 degrees out.  I go out to start my Volvo - which had had no issues starting in the balmy ~30 degree temperatures down in Maryland - and it went "wonk....wooonk....woooooonk....click".  It was like 7AM...fortunately the 'pop' part of the ownership was out plowing in his F250 diesel and came over to give me a jumpstart.  

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

ST head gaskets have never had a problem.

On the 2.3 in the RS, the affected cars were the first off the line.  The cars with the wrong gasket get fixed under a recall.  All subsequent cars (and replacement gaskets) are of a different design, and don't randomly blow under normal conditions like the early ones did.

That said, the 2.3 is open deck unlike the 2.0 in the ST, so it's a bit more prone to the cylinders wobbling around and eating the gasket.  At the stock amount of power it shouldn't be an issue, but it isn't as tolerant as mischief as the 2 liter.

Knurled. said:

Without reading the whole thread.

 

Nothing with a timing chain is reliable.  Period.  I don't care if it is built by GM or VW or Honda or Toyota.  If it has a timing chain, the chain and/or guides will wear out as fast or faster than a belt's scheduled maintenance.  Only, there IS no scheduled chain maintenance.  The maintenance schedule is, when the chain jumps time, you buy a new car like a good little consumer.

 

 

I feel like the 90k belt interval on the prev. generation vs. the 245k miles on my CRV with the timing chain still holding accurate time and the guides visually inspected good last week would beg to differ. This might be the hottest take in camshaft timing.  

Knurled. said:

Without reading the whole thread.

 

Nothing with a timing chain is reliable.  Period.  I don't care if it is built by GM or VW or Honda or Toyota.  If it has a timing chain, the chain and/or guides will wear out as fast or faster than a belt's scheduled maintenance.  Only, there IS no scheduled chain maintenance.  The maintenance schedule is, when the chain jumps time, you buy a new car like a good little consumer.

 

 

Well my 371,000 miles pickup would argue with you. In fact every single car I’ve ever owned with a timing chain has gone far longer than those with Belts. 

The secret for long life with a timing chain?  Keep the oil level up. Yes that’s all you have to do.  

The Sonic is a neat choice, stick and a hatch and all.

There are no great options in this "medium sized manual hatchback" space.

Knurled. said:

Without reading the whole thread.

 

Nothing with a timing chain is reliable.  Period.  I don't care if it is built by GM or VW or Honda or Toyota.  If it has a timing chain, the chain and/or guides will wear out as fast or faster than a belt's scheduled maintenance.  Only, there IS no scheduled chain maintenance.  The maintenance schedule is, when the chain jumps time, you buy a new car like a good little consumer.

 

 

Was this serious or tongue in cheek?  Maybe I have just been lucky but all of the cars with chains that I have owned have never had any issue with them and that includes 3 with over 250K miles on them.

In reply to Aaron_King :

Knurled only drives late 90's Jaguars lol

tuna55 said:

The Sonic is a neat choice, stick and a hatch and all.

 

There are no great options in this "medium sized manual hatchback" space.

You're right there are no great options.

I bought a Sonic for Mrs. f1y about a year and a half ago. It's way nicer than we expected for what it is, and she is generally happy with it but it's not really what we wanted.

sobe_death said:

Knurled. said:

Without reading the whole thread.

 

Nothing with a timing chain is reliable.  Period.  I don't care if it is built by GM or VW or Honda or Toyota.  If it has a timing chain, the chain and/or guides will wear out as fast or faster than a belt's scheduled maintenance.  Only, there IS no scheduled chain maintenance.  The maintenance schedule is, when the chain jumps time, you buy a new car like a good little consumer.

 

 

I feel like the 90k belt interval on the prev. generation vs. the 245k miles on my CRV with the timing chain still holding accurate time and the guides visually inspected good last week would beg to differ. This might be the hottest take in camshaft timing.  

You got a good one, I guess, or you don't follow the dealer lack-of-maintenance schedule.  I've done a few K engines that were so loose that they were slapping the tensioner, and none were over 100k.

Interesting that Honda also has a problem with the cam phaser lock pin breaking, causing a cold start rattle until oil pressure builds up.  Interesting that I have only seen this failure in person on engines that also had loose timing chains, as if the chain knocking around was causing the lock pin to shear.