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carguy123
carguy123 UltimaDork
10/7/21 9:59 p.m.

It's time for a new pick up truck.  I have a 2010 Ford F150 that has been 100% trouble free from day 1 and I now have 166,000 miles on it.  I've loved it.

 

But when I buy a pick up, I buy a back seat.  I figure they all will do the driving and hauling I want so I want some  car in my truck because I use it for everything.  I want a back seat that is big enough, comfortable enough, works well for people as well as for hauling things in the floor and occasionally having to sleep in it when on a trips.

 

Till now Ford has been the answer.  Chevy has the C pillar right where your foot needs to be when you exit the car plus their back seat is small and uncomfortable.

Dodge has had some of the same issues as Chevy, but not quite a bad plus they have the cool storage compartments in the bed.

 

That's been my biggest complaint about this Ford is the lack of storage compartments for the things you need to carry all the time like tools and straps.  They have this one tiny, shallow compartment under one of the back seats.  Dodge has much more storage inside than Chevy or Ford.

 

Today at the State Fair of Texas I got to compare all of the big 3 side by side and the new Dodge was the clear winner in every aspect.  Ford broke their truck and now the C pillar is in a worse position than Chevy's and Chevy has improved their C pillar placement.

 

But a few things about the Dodge I need to run by you guys.  First of all are their any known flaws or constant issues with the Dodge?  I have paid zero attention to them.

 

They have a cool (sounding) air suspension that lowers the truck for entry and exit, changes height and rake depending upon speed and who knows what else.  Is it reliable?

They also have a 48 volt battery to operate an Etorque system that sounds like it basically augments the power/torque by using a motor to drive all the accessories and get rid of that parasitic drag upon different scenarios like passing, drag starts, towing, etc.  Are there any horror stories out there about that?

 

Is the 6 cylinder even worth looking at?

Is the 5.7 reliable?

How about their small diesel? It's supposed to be cleaner and quieter than traditional diesels?

 

I looked at the new Jeep PU and the Toyota and the Jeep is a different beast and the Toyota simply doesn't compare in any metric.  Plus the Dodge is slightly cheaper, and I mean slightly.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
10/7/21 10:53 p.m.

Uh. I have a 2016 Ram 1500 micro (eco)diesel. I have loved it through 75000 miles. Lots of recalls but nothing has stopped it. I tow a 23' 1972 Airstream- probably 3500-4000 LB. Tows beautifully. Ride is fantastic. Mileage is pretty damn good. I average 23-24 without the trailer and 3.92 gears. I've got the ram boxes too. They are absolutely awesome and I wouldnt ever spec any truck without them. 
 

until 50 days ago I'd recommend this whole setup 100%. That's until I took it in for a check engine light for a glow plug. The truck ran flawlessly. Just the CEL. Two hours they say. It has been 50 days. They broke the head off the glow plug pulling it. Could t drill it. Have to pull the berkeleying cab off to change the head out. Looking at another month. 
 

So. I'd do roughly the truck again. The whole thing except I'd just get the hemi. 

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
10/7/21 10:58 p.m.

Now I'm looking at 96-02 4runners. I'm thinking anything with a Toyota badge, while not cutting edge, like, ever, is also built like a berkeleying anvil. 

mtn
mtn MegaDork
10/7/21 11:21 p.m.

I would think that the best back seats are going to be either the Ridgeline or the Rivian, though that's still probably 2 years away if you were to order today. 
 

Otherwise, doesn't Ram have the Mega Cab that is even bigger than a crew cab? Might be 3/4 ton+ though. 

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
10/7/21 11:35 p.m.

I'm trying to figure out how the c pillar is getting in the way of your foot. Are you a gymnast? 
 

All the crew cab trucks are good vehicles, personal preference would probably dictate which is best for you. I hear you on the storage. I personally prefer a larger, deeper open floor Vs. built in underseat storage cubbies or fold out trays. I love my old Titan in that respect. Tons of room with the seats up, and lots of room behind the seats. Many newer trucks cram that space with power back windows- I'd take the space over the power window. The Ram Box trucks look like an interesting solution to the truck storage problem. 

Patientzero
Patientzero Dork
10/8/21 3:35 a.m.

I went from a 2010 F150 5.4 to a 2021 Ram 1500 with the 5.7/etorque.  I use/used both to tow my Mustang on a 18ft open trailer as well as the family hauler.

-The etorque has plenty of power, it will absolutely roast the tires.  It tows the car easily.

-The 8 speed in the Ram is awesome, shifts are super smooth and is always in the right gear.

-Ram has lots of interior storage like you mentioned with I love.

-My dad had a 2019 F150 Ecoboost and now has a 2021 Silverado so I've driven all three.  I much prefer the Ram to the other two. It is the most "car-like", very comfortable.  The F150 would be a close second.  I hate the Chevy.  I don't like the seating position and every touch surface feels cheap.  Not to mention the truck is hideous.

-In tow/haul mode I don't like how long it takes for the Ram to shift even at light throttle.  Towing my car(approx 5500lbs) I just leave tow/haul turned off and the 8-speed does just fine.

-Gas Mileage.  It is EXACTLY the same between the F150 and the Ram under the same driving conditions whether towing or not.  11/12 City, 18 highway.  After some googling it appears this is a well known failure.  The 5.7 without the etorque gets several mpg's better than the etorque motor.  If I were doing it over I'd get the regular 5.7.

-As for reliability the 5.7 has been around now for over two decades in multiple platforms and I've never really heard of any issues with it.  I think transmission problems have always been Dodge's downfall but this new 8-speed seems to be a good one.

-The Ram has been Truck of the Year for the last 3 years, for good reason in my opinion.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/8/21 7:08 a.m.
Teh E36 M3 said:

Now I'm looking at 96-02 4runners. I'm thinking anything with a Toyota badge, while not cutting edge, like, ever, is also built like a berkeleying anvil. 

I'd go for the generation after, preferably 05 and later as that's when they got the 5 spd auto, IIRC. 

I had an '07 v8 4WD Limited. Really regret having let my ex-trade it in to get something different because she thought it was too big. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/8/21 7:19 a.m.

they havent made a truck with the right back seat since the GMT800. PERFECT rear seat room and folding. 

Opti
Opti Dork
10/8/21 10:14 a.m.

If I was looking at a brand new truck Id buy a Dodge.

My ideal spec would be 4 door, short bed, 4x4, 5.7 without etorque.

Recently they were doing 2 different 4 doors one was slightly longer, they called them the quad cab and crew cab I believe. It wasnt a drastic difference like the megacab. I never noticed a difference, but my brother who just bought a few year old one, said it was a big difference and was actually a major spec he hunted for, because he always carries people and a car seat in the back seat. I dont know if the brand new ones still have the 2 different cabs.

He does handyman stuff and wanted the rambox, he ended up passing after hearing a bunch of reports of them not sealing. The common answers among owners was after a while the flex in the bed ruins alignment just enough for them to not seal. I had never heard this, but he said he saw it constantly from owners groups.

Im not a fan of the etorque. I will admit I havent seen one or seen any problems with one, but I am very jaded about supplemental hybrid systems because of all the problems I saw with the Yukon and Tahoe hybrids. It seemed like a major reduction in reliability when you got some miles for only a small benefit in fuel economy. Plus the new Hemis have plenty of power already, so the etorque isnt a gamble id be willing to make.

I think the newer dodges have the best ride of the big three even without the air suspension. They also have the nicest interior.

The 5.7 is a tried and true motor, as an owner of an Gen V LT, the 5.7 is the better motor for truck stuff. The GM LT stuff is generally reliable, but very early very catastrophic valvetrain failures are more common than Im comfortable with. Plus you still have the late life lifter failures. The Hemi also suffered from the MDS lifter failures, but I saw them at a much lower rate than the GM stuff. My dad had an early Hemi and around or slightly after 400K miles it was still running fine and had plenty of power but he had it pulled for a rebuild, they rebuilt but said the bearings and bores were in great shape and almost everything they checked was still within service specs. He is not nice to his vehicles or that good about regular maintenance. For probably the first 10 years he owned it, it towed 4-5 times a month, and not just like a single pallet of drywall, we're talking about other vehicles, large campers, and a fully loaded pallet of construction equipment and materials, and the new one has about 20% more power, 3 extra gears,a nd god knows how much electronic wizardry, thats why I dont see the need for the etorque system.

I wouldnt consider the 3.6. First because it doesnt work as well in a truck as the power numbers would lead you to think. Second, it hasnt been very reliable. Earlier ones were plaqued with lash adjuster and rocker failures that can wipe a cam, the later ones still have that problem but to a less degree and now Im seeing valve problems, which are requiring head replacement. Third, if you are buying now, you are buying at the top of the market. Base model trucks havent done so well historically in depreciation. Buying now you are probably going to pay a premium and Id want to spec something that when the market corrects wont take a 40% hit in value. Before Covid craziness I was seeing a really big difference in the most popular specs and the base model specs from trucks from the big three, around here the most valuable ones were 4x4 4 doors with the highest spec motor, next was 2 door short beds with the best motor, way at the bottom was the base engines. In dodge I was seeing V8 4x4 tradesmens (base trim) selling for considerably more than fully loaded V6s.

As far as concerns, I worry about the ZF trans. I havent seen many failures, but for my use which is keep it for a long time, put a ton of miles on it, and work it hard. I worry about the cost of a rebuild. The 545RFE was already quite expensive to rebuild, but it did last almost 400K miles (it never really died) and was incredibly robust, so it wasnt the end of the world. The fact that the filter is integrated into the pan, and it uses an expensive fluid is pretty aggravating though. I believe most setups that use a zf trans like that have an aftermarket solution to make them separate. Its not a deal breaker though as almost any new vehicle you buy will have at least one component that is expensive to service.

Im torn on the air suspension, Ive seen some rather expensive failures. Quite a few on the Gran Cherokees, not as many on the rams, but still seeing it. I do really like it when its working though.

None of this may matter to you, Im not the type that wants a truck as a luxury vehicle that is also very capable. I want a truck to work like a truck and be easy and inexpensive to maintain, because I put a ton of miles on them.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
10/8/21 10:47 a.m.

Typical Dodge rear doors:

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
10/8/21 11:20 a.m.
Opti said:

If I was looking at a brand new truck Id buy a Dodge.

My ideal spec would be 4 door, short bed, 4x4, 5.7 without etorque.

Recently they were doing 2 different 4 doors one was slightly longer, they called them the quad cab and crew cab I believe. It wasnt a drastic difference like the megacab. I never noticed a difference, but my brother who just bought a few year old one, said it was a big difference and was actually a major spec he hunted for, because he always carries people and a car seat in the back seat. I dont know if the brand new ones still have the 2 different cabs.

He does handyman stuff and wanted the rambox, he ended up passing after hearing a bunch of reports of them not sealing. The common answers among owners was after a while the flex in the bed ruins alignment just enough for them to not seal. I had never heard this, but he said he saw it constantly from owners groups.

Im not a fan of the etorque. I will admit I havent seen one or seen any problems with one, but I am very jaded about supplemental hybrid systems because of all the problems I saw with the Yukon and Tahoe hybrids. It seemed like a major reduction in reliability when you got some miles for only a small benefit in fuel economy. Plus the new Hemis have plenty of power already, so the etorque isnt a gamble id be willing to make.

I think the newer dodges have the best ride of the big three even without the air suspension. They also have the nicest interior.

The 5.7 is a tried and true motor, as an owner of an Gen V LT, the 5.7 is the better motor for truck stuff. The GM LT stuff is generally reliable, but very early very catastrophic valvetrain failures are more common than Im comfortable with. Plus you still have the late life lifter failures. The Hemi also suffered from the MDS lifter failures, but I saw them at a much lower rate than the GM stuff. My dad had an early Hemi and around or slightly after 400K miles it was still running fine and had plenty of power but he had it pulled for a rebuild, they rebuilt but said the bearings and bores were in great shape and almost everything they checked was still within service specs. He is not nice to his vehicles or that good about regular maintenance. For probably the first 10 years he owned it, it towed 4-5 times a month, and not just like a single pallet of drywall, we're talking about other vehicles, large campers, and a fully loaded pallet of construction equipment and materials, and the new one has about 20% more power, 3 extra gears,a nd god knows how much electronic wizardry, thats why I dont see the need for the etorque system.

I wouldnt consider the 3.6. First because it doesnt work as well in a truck as the power numbers would lead you to think. Second, it hasnt been very reliable. Earlier ones were plaqued with lash adjuster and rocker failures that can wipe a cam, the later ones still have that problem but to a less degree and now Im seeing valve problems, which are requiring head replacement. Third, if you are buying now, you are buying at the top of the market. Base model trucks havent done so well historically in depreciation. Buying now you are probably going to pay a premium and Id want to spec something that when the market corrects wont take a 40% hit in value. Before Covid craziness I was seeing a really big difference in the most popular specs and the base model specs from trucks from the big three, around here the most valuable ones were 4x4 4 doors with the highest spec motor, next was 2 door short beds with the best motor, way at the bottom was the base engines. In dodge I was seeing V8 4x4 tradesmens (base trim) selling for considerably more than fully loaded V6s.

As far as concerns, I worry about the ZF trans. I havent seen many failures, but for my use which is keep it for a long time, put a ton of miles on it, and work it hard. I worry about the cost of a rebuild. The 545RFE was already quite expensive to rebuild, but it did last almost 400K miles (it never really died) and was incredibly robust, so it wasnt the end of the world. The fact that the filter is integrated into the pan, and it uses an expensive fluid is pretty aggravating though. I believe most setups that use a zf trans like that have an aftermarket solution to make them separate. Its not a deal breaker though as almost any new vehicle you buy will have at least one component that is expensive to service.

Im torn on the air suspension, Ive seen some rather expensive failures. Quite a few on the Gran Cherokees, not as many on the rams, but still seeing it. I do really like it when its working though.

None of this may matter to you, Im not the type that wants a truck as a luxury vehicle that is also very capable. I want a truck to work like a truck and be easy and inexpensive to maintain, because I put a ton of miles on them.

This is interesting to read because I had always assumed that the MDS issues were more prevalent with Dodge than GM, also did later revisions to the Dodge 5.7 solve the oil to the cam/lifters issue that killed earlier version with excessive idling? 

Opti
Opti Dork
10/8/21 11:55 a.m.

In reply to dannyp84 :

Ive heard people claiming the idle oiling was the problem, but I havent seen anything concrete so I dont know if it is actually the root cause or if Dodge did anything to correct it. The argument I always saw was fleets have more problems, fleets idle often, its a problem from idling. Unless there is new info I havent heard (I havent kept up with it), its hard for me to say that's conclusive, because in my experience fleet vehicles are beat on and generally not maintained well, and Ive seen all kinds of glorious and weird failures from fleet vehicles.

I've seen a few bad cams, and broken springs and bad lifters the most.  I wasnt saying the Dodge MDS is without fault, Ive just seen the exact same problems from GM at a higher rate, and with the LT stuff more catastrophic failures and earlier. Could be my demographic around here, but it seems to line up with experiences from people I know who own these.

Either way I would expect and prepare for a cam/lifter/spring failure on either a GM or Dodge if I bought one and planned on keeping it for a long time, and if it didnt happen Id be pleasantly surprised. Ive seen a few older DOD GMs with tons of miles that dont tick and havent experienced a failure, the common thread is good oil changed very often, a friend at a local GM dealers service department says the same thing.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/8/21 12:05 p.m.

Can you wait until the new Tundras hit dealerships? Also, how tall are you, would you be able to sleep in the bed of a Santa Cruz using a bed extender? 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/8/21 12:08 p.m.

In reply to Opti :

Keep in mind GM sells a lot more LS powered trucks than Ram  does hemi powered trucks. For 2020 GM sold 847k new light duty trucks. Ram sold 563k. Total. Ram also sold a lot of thosewith the eco-diesel and the V6 where the vast majority of the GM's were LT powered. So statistically you should see more GM's with problems than Rams.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
10/8/21 12:09 p.m.

I have a crew with 6.5 ft bed. I can't imagine unless your passengers are REALLY tall, needing the mega. It's a pretty large space back there. 
 

Again- I love the ram boxes. I wouldn't spec a truck without them and am not sure what another said about them "sealing". 
 

Also love the 6.5 bed. It's already a big vehicle and I don't think bed space is where one should sacrifice if you are going to have a truck. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/8/21 12:09 p.m.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

The new Tundra? You mean the El Camino'd 4 Runner?

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
10/8/21 12:09 p.m.
z31maniac said:
Teh E36 M3 said:

Now I'm looking at 96-02 4runners. I'm thinking anything with a Toyota badge, while not cutting edge, like, ever, is also built like a berkeleying anvil. 

I'd go for the generation after, preferably 05 and later as that's when they got the 5 spd auto, IIRC. 

I had an '07 v8 4WD Limited. Really regret having let my ex-trade it in to get something different because she thought it was too big. 

I am looking for manuals. smiley

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/8/21 1:19 p.m.

In reply to bobzilla :

They're doing a turbo V6 hybrid 4Runner as well? I missed that, but I'm intrigued. 

chandler
chandler UltimaDork
10/8/21 1:21 p.m.

I have an '18 F150 that has great space in the back seat, I'm 6'1" and fit well. I have a '21 on order and have heard the space isn't as good. Since it's a company truck I take what I get but stinks to lose the space. The under seat space management leaves a lot to be desired, my dodge had troughs under the seat which was great for keeping stuff UNDER the seat.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/8/21 1:28 p.m.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to bobzilla :

They're doing a turbo V6 hybrid 4Runner as well? I missed that, but I'm intrigued. 

Sorry, wrong suv. Looks like they el camino'd a GMC Acadia.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
10/8/21 1:33 p.m.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to bobzilla :

They're doing a turbo V6 hybrid 4Runner as well? I missed that, but I'm intrigued. 

Didn't I read an article that said Toyota was going to have at minimum a hybrid option on all vehicles by 2025?

Edit: Can't find the article I thought I read, but I also can't find anything they offer (besides of course the 86, Supra, Taco and 4Runner) that isn't already offered in hybrid. I'm assuming that the sequoia will get the tundra hybrid drivetrain.

stanger_mussle
stanger_mussle GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/8/21 2:16 p.m.

How much are you looking to tow? I might have missed it.

If its 4k lbs or less, I'd seriously look at the Ford Maverick. It will tow 4k lbs with the 2.0L Ecoboost and AWD with the 4k tow package. The AWD Ecoboost is rated at 22mpg city and 29mpg highway. The only bodystyle available is the SuperCrew. The bed is only 4.5' though.

Prices range from $19,995 for the base FWD XL to $25,490 for the Lariat.

RobertElder
RobertElder New Reader
10/8/21 3:10 p.m.

While the braintrust is discussing new pickups.. thoughts on the new gen Titan? I'm eye'ing a PRO4X.

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter)
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/8/21 3:17 p.m.

I feel like we are living in a golden age of trucks. Ford has 4 sizes available, Dodge has 3 cab configurations on their full-size trucks, there are a few all-electric trucks, trucks ride better and have more amenities than a Mercedes S-Class of a few years ago, you can get 1000 ft/lb of torque or 700+ supercharged HP...the list goes on. Prices range from just under $20K to over $70K. I am hoping for one more sub-category of trucks to be added soon.

Folgers
Folgers New Reader
10/8/21 8:18 p.m.

I bought a 2018 ram, crew cab, 3500, 8 foot bed, in 2019, 6.4 hemi,  for $32000. It’s  a tradesman without carpet. 

By far the most truck for the money at the time. The chevys rode better but didn’t have the capability and were more money, the fords rode comparably for more money. 

The 2019 and newer hd gas rams have an  eight speed transmission. They do not have a shifter on the column. It’s a knob on the dash. That was a dealbreaker for me at the time. 

Your mileage may vary, with all the craziness in the world right now. 

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