new Small Pickup coming to the US?

Except for the 4' width between wheel wells, that's an 8 year old Colorado.

Ian F wrote: In reply to jstand: Umm... you pretty much spec'd out the typical 1500 series pick-up (of which there are 3 parked in my white-collar office lot), except the cargo capacity, which tends to be be higher. Your bed-size puts the truck squarely in the "fullsize" range. None of the current compact trucks have beds that wide.

Yes, except fit that 1500 series truck into a ranger/s10 sized package, improve the fuel economy, lower the price, and reduce the towing capability by half.

Lower payload and towing should allow for a reduction in weight and power while improving economy and maintaining performance.

Both the ranger and s10 I've owed had 6 foot beds, the but annoyingly had less than 4 feet between the wheel wells. So a 5 or 6 foot bed isn't strictly 1500 territory. Adding a few inches in width to a compact truck to get 4 feet between the wheel wells should be doable, minivans and SUV's can do it with finished interiors.

The manufacturers need to approach the market from a different perspective, instead of asking what would you change about the current offerings, ask what do you want to do with the vehicle? It may produce surprising answers and give the designers freedom to go in new directions and innovate rather than refine.

That avoids the trap that Kawasaki fell into on jet skis. They made incremental improvements to the stand up skis (by adding padding, etc), while the competition realized that people wanted to be able to take friends along and have place to sit. A radical change, and one that has overtaken that market.

Zomby Woof wrote: Except for the 4' width between wheel wells, that's an 8 year old Colorado.

A 4wd, crew cab Colorado got mpg in the mid to high 20s combined?

The fine people at AVIS gave me a 4X4 Excursion last week for my business trip in Minnesota.

I don’t like unnecessarily large and/or complex things and the Excursion experience strongly reaffirmed my preferences. The thing was so Berkleying huge that I found myself using the passenger door to place and retrieve my laptop bag to avoid the poll dancer style gymnastics necessary to reach across the gigantic center console.

I’m fine with paying the same price for a right sized truck as a too large truck because the too large truck is simply too large.

For whatever it's worth, I think if Ford chopped the back on the Flex to make a truck, it'd be pretty awesome. Double bonus points if they offered a lift-off 'glass rear like the old Broncos. Yeah. I could totally get behind that. Sounds like a perfect urban/suburban truck to me.

I think as a compromise, I'd like to see a few economy cars actually equipped to tow. Wiring harness to plug into, and a hitch option that isn't dragging on the berkeleying ground (before I lower the car).

Make the hitch integrated into the rear bumper like the back of a tahoe (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/03/Tahoe-exterior-8-thumb.JPG) and it would be just dandy for 99%+ of my needs.

I suspect cost is the big deal here. With a stripped down 1/2 ton right around $20k there's no market for a mini pickup at $18k. Take a $14k small sedan and turn it into a BRAT at the same price by ditching 4/7 of the airbags, 1/2 the doors, windows and seats and keep the mpg over 35 hwy and they will sell.

I don't think 5k towing is necessary either. Given that the US trailer industry has settled on 2k, 3.5k, and 5/6k axles as standards 5k is a silly number. Give me something rated to haul 3500# and I will get a nice 800# aluminum single axle trailer to put my 2500# car on and be happy every day. You guys can poo-poo me all you want but I will be spending my money on the car instead of gas.

Somewhat pertinent Jalopnik article:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/tow-me-down-1609112611/1609771499/+ballaban

jstand wrote:

Zomby Woof wrote: Except for the 4' width between wheel wells, that's an 8 year old Colorado.

A 4wd, crew cab Colorado got mpg in the mid to high 20s combined?

I don't know, but 4wd was not part of your criteria, the majority of which is also not met by the fiat which you seem to think is a step in the right direction. Perhaps you are confused

I don't get the obsession with the whole 4ft between the wheel tubs thing, more than 4 ft between the bed rails, sure. I don't see the big issue with it only being able to haul however much plywood you think the tailgate and tubs can support, if you need to haul more than a few sheets you probably should have a bigger truck(or small trailer) anyways.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I can see 10 years down the line the truck market re-embracing small car based pick up's when they are tired of needing a step ladder to get into even the base model 1/2 ton pick-up.

This if anything will be what gives the small truck a comeback. Pretty soon you'll need a crane to get anything in the bed of a full size.

Who dug up that sad-sap designer who thought that everything GM made had to be clad in ugly rust promoting plastic cladding. I thought they found and killed him dead?

Seriously, needs to have a stake driven through his heart and stay dead.

Other than that, yeah, cool little truck.

I thought AWD covered the 4wd aspect, and the Fiat is a small truck-like vehicle.

Apparently I was confused that a small truck like vehicle was a step in the right direction even if it didn't meet what I think a compact truck

No way it will carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood so no sale here. It'll be sold to and driven by young girls trying to look cool.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

moving drywall (even one sheet) without 4ft between the wheel tubs is really annoying because it is not strong enough to support itself.

That situation aside (how often do most people haul drywall), I agree with you.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Perhaps I'm a colossal idiot, but whats stopping you from slotting in several sheets diagonally, running a ratchet strap or two across the back to hold them in and driving home?

I have a Sequoia, a 4x8 utility trailer, and a 16-foot flatbed car hauler.

When I have to pick up a couple sheets of plywood, or a few 2x4s, I find it easier to simply throw them up on the bike rack on top of my WRX.

There are a zillion ways to carry wood in a short-bed pickup that isn't 4 feet between the wheel wells. But, like the towing argument, it seems to me that most people buying the little Fiat pickup probably don't regularly need to carry home large plywood sheets or drywall. And in the few cases they do, there are plenty of workarounds.

A 'real' pickup will carry 4x8 sheets flat. Anything else is a girly truck.

Seriously, the reason big pickups sell is because a lot of people want to haul stuff in them. This trucklet will be like the Subaru Brat: all looks, very little utility and both the old and new ones sold in very small numbers. When most people vote with their dollars for a truck, this one doesn't fill the bill.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I don't get the obsession with the whole 4ft between the wheel tubs thing, more than 4 ft between the bed rails, sure. I don't see the big issue with it only being able to haul however much plywood you think the tailgate and tubs can support, if you need to haul more than a few sheets you probably should have a bigger truck(or small trailer) anyways.

You're right, it doesn't really matter for plywood. But plywood isn't the only thing that is 4 feet wide.

Things like drywall and cement board don't like being supported on edges.

Besides it's my pet peeve about compact trucks, so I can whine about it if I feel like it

In reply to Curmudgeon:

No people buy tons full size trucks because they THINK they will haul stuff in them, and because its as close as you can get to a proper full size car these days from a non luxury brand. Also because they think they look cool in one. Just like how they go for 4WD, even though it never leaves pavement and doesn't even snow where they are half the time.

Curmudgeon wrote: It'll be sold to and driven by young girls trying to look cool.

Good call. It's the new x90

jstand wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: I don't get the obsession with the whole 4ft between the wheel tubs thing, more than 4 ft between the bed rails, sure. I don't see the big issue with it only being able to haul however much plywood you think the tailgate and tubs can support, if you need to haul more than a few sheets you probably should have a bigger truck(or small trailer) anyways.

You're right, it doesn't really matter for plywood. But plywood isn't the only thing that is 4 feet wide. Things like drywall and cement board don't like being supported on edges. Besides it's my pet peeve about compact trucks, so I can whine about it if I feel like it

It is annoying, but easily fixed. I know when we had an old ranger, we just put a few cinder-blocks in the bed on their sides to support whatever 4x8 sheet higher than the wheel arches. There was still plenty of room to carry tons of them (likely near the payload capacity).

I'd rather the bed narrower if it makes the whole truck narrower.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: No people buy tons full size trucks because they THINK they will haul stuff in them, and because its as close as you can get to a proper full size car these days from a non luxury brand. Also because they think they look cool in one. Just like how they go for 4WD, even though it never leaves pavement and doesn't even snow where they are half the time.

Yup.

And most people commute by themselves a short distance, but instead of buying a Fiesta, get an Accord.

How many times do we hear that 90% of the drivers can easily live with any electric car out there?

People don't buy what they really need, they buy what they think they need. Heck, even here, the "want" is more about think than reality. A 4 seat mini-pick up? Really?? AWD- for what?!? How often do you REALLY pull 5000lb? I can count on one finger the times I've actually had anywhere near half ton in the bed of a vehicle. It's a truck, if you want +30mpg, get a car. I HONESTLY think that 90% of the want of a truck can be satisfied with renting the truck from Home Depot. Yet people want more than they need.

It's been that way for at least forever.

I'll agree a truck isn't necessary for many tasks, but in many cases it's the best tool for the job.

Once you've had a truck, putting drywall in the back of a minivan, plywood on the roof, or using a trailer to get 2x4's is a hassle. Sure those works, but isn't the easiest or most efficient method.

NOHOME wrote: Who dug up that sad-sap designer who thought that everything GM made had to be clad in ugly rust promoting plastic cladding. I thought they found and killed him dead? Seriously, needs to have a stake driven through his heart and stay dead. Other than that, yeah, cool little truck.

didn't he work at Honda for a while doing the element?