I will, probably, have to buy an EV appliance at some point but that's an expensive iPad. Or is it an xAuto? tCar?
I will, probably, have to buy an EV appliance at some point but that's an expensive iPad. Or is it an xAuto? tCar?
Keith Tanner said:In reply to Xceler8x :
If you want gauges in front of you, you can do that with CANdash - written by a friend of mine. In real life, about the only thing you really need to be monitoring is speed. It's not like engine RPM or temperature is all that important, and if you set the HVAC to auto it just works. There are more switches than you think, they're just not shotgunned all over the interior. The turn signals are on a switch that's mounted to the wheel instead of a stalk, more like a motorcycle. Not sure I'd prefer that over a stalk, but hey - it's a switch.
The Cybertruck is technically a pretty impressive piece of work. Terrible platform to put that tech in, but the engineering is really good. I wish that tech was in a Model 2 instead. The new Model 3 platform addresses some things that couldn't be done incrementally, such as significant aero improvements. Also, someone at Tesla woke up and realized that the mass market doesn't understand invisible incremental improvements, the market needs something visibly different to understand progress. Thus the new styling.
My BRZ has an auto function, never use it.
Let's say I want it 68 degrees in the car. But I come out after being at lunch when it's 100 degrees, I want to turn it down to 60 on full blast recirculate, until the car cools down. Do the Tesla's have voice command for that stuff?
You have to go into the touch screen to select forward or reverse, which kills it for me.
stuart in mn said:You have to go into the touch screen to select forward or reverse, which kills it for me.
That's crazy! Turns out there are buttons but they're on the ceiling and kind of low key:
In reply to z31maniac :
You think of thermostats the same way my wife does :) Setting it lower will make it cool down faster...
I know that if I tell the car to turn on the AC via the app and it's 102F inside, it's down to the set 70 by the time I've walked across the parking lot. It's very effective AC. You could probably do your max cool request via voice but with the preconditioning I've never had to.
z31maniac said:My BRZ has an auto function, never use it.
Let's say I want it 68 degrees in the car. But I come out after being at lunch when it's 100 degrees, I want to turn it down to 60 on full blast recirculate, until the car cools down.
In every car I've ever had with automatic temperature control, if the interior temp was 100 degrees vs a set point of 68, the HVAC would automatically put itself into panic mode to get down to set point as quickly as possible. You didn't have to set it lower than you actually wanted. Then it would back off the fan as it approached desired temperature.
And just to be extra pedantic, you don't want recirculate for the first few minutes anyway. If interior temp is 102 on a 92 degree day, you're just making an extra 10 degrees of temperature differential to overcome. I think the Volvos actually do this - go to fresh air mode at first, then recirc once the interior gets below ambient, then back to fresh as it gets nearer to set point.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to z31maniac :
You think of thermostats the same way my wife does :) Setting it lower will make it cool down faster...
I know that if I tell the car to turn on the AC via the app and it's 102F inside, it's down to the set 70 by the time I've walked across the parking lot. It's very effective AC. You could probably do your max cool request via voice but with the preconditioning I've never had to.
I've tried to explain how thermostats work way too many times. She doesn't trust auto climate for the same reason. Does the same thing in the house too and will turn it down to 60 when she walks in.
You can set the cabin overheat protection to turn on the a/c when the car gets above 90, 95, 0r 100 depending on your preference. I leave it set to 100 over the summer and use the ceiling shades. Keeps the car decent all the time and you don't burn your arse on the seats when you get in.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to z31maniac :
You think of thermostats the same way my wife does :) Setting it lower will make it cool down faster...
I know that if I tell the car to turn on the AC via the app and it's 102F inside, it's down to the set 70 by the time I've walked across the parking lot. It's very effective AC. You could probably do your max cool request via voice but with the preconditioning I've never had to.
I'll have to give that a shot once it warms up and I drive my car next.
After the whole near car jacking experience a couple of weeks ago, I've been hesitant to drive it.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Speaking of Cammisa.
2024 Tesla Model 3 Performance Full Review w/ Jason Cammisa — The Carmudgeon Show Ep. 142
I just listened to this and it would seem even the driving impressions, baring the numbers, is impressive per his experience. My niggles with the styling and switchgear may take a backseat. I'm still extremely hesitant to enter a business relationship with Elon. He's the biggest impediment to buying a Tesla at this point. Which begs the question, if you don't buy a product because the CEO is a jerk how far does that go? I'm currently debating this dilemma. I'm glad there are alternatives such as the Ioniq 5 N with more options coming.
To address your points, they all make sense.
In reply to CyberEric :
The price point is truly amazing. This should drive down the cost of other EV performance options. I'd love to see the Lucid Air and Ioniq N come down in price. I can't see Lucid maintaining the cost of the RWD Pure considering this development.
Xceler8x said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Speaking of Cammisa.
2024 Tesla Model 3 Performance Full Review w/ Jason Cammisa — The Carmudgeon Show Ep. 142
I just listened to this and it would seem even the driving impressions, baring the numbers, is impressive per his experience. My niggles with the styling and switchgear may take a backseat. I'm still extremely hesitant to enter a business relationship with Elon. He's the biggest impediment to buying a Tesla at this point. Which begs the question, if you don't buy a product because the CEO is a jerk who far does that go? I'm currently debating this dilemma. I'm glad there are alternatives such as the Ioniq 5 N with more options coming.
To address your points, they all make sense.
I also feel that way.
Plus the constant articles about poor build quality.
In reply to Xceler8x :
I agree 100% with what you said. I totally see the value. I agree the product is pretty great but man the thought of doing anything with Musk makes my skin crawl. Now that It's priced in the ballpark of a good hot compact, it makes a lot of sense.
I have a long time till I buy another car since my primary DD has less than 40K miles. It'll be interesting to see the options by then.
Xceler8x said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Speaking of Cammisa.
2024 Tesla Model 3 Performance Full Review w/ Jason Cammisa — The Carmudgeon Show Ep. 142
I just listened to this and it would seem even the driving impressions, baring the numbers, is impressive per his experience. My niggles with the styling and switchgear may take a backseat. I'm still extremely hesitant to enter a business relationship with Elon. He's the biggest impediment to buying a Tesla at this point. Which begs the question, if you don't buy a product because the CEO is a jerk how far does that go? I'm currently debating this dilemma. I'm glad there are alternatives such as the Ioniq 5 N with more options coming.
To address your points, they all make sense.
I don't get this argument. "Oh Elon is a jerk I can't support him"
Yet people continuously support the oil companies actively destroying the environment? Support food companies that rely on slave labor? Support seed companies that sue their farmers because wind and bees move pollen and corrupt the precious GMO seed stock?
But "I think he's an shiny happy person" takes precedent?
I fail to see the logic behind it is all. It feels like selective, or even programmed, outrage.
RevRico said:I don't get this argument. "Oh Elon is a jerk I can't support him"
Yet people continuously support the oil companies actively destroying the environment? Support food companies that rely on slave labor? Support seed companies that sue their farmers because wind and bees move pollen and corrupt the precious GMO seed stock?
But "I think he's an shiny happy person" takes precedent?
I fail to see the logic behind it is all. It feels like selective, or even programmed, outrage.
Like it or not, Elon is the VERY public face of Tesla, and he's a controversial guy for a lot of reasons. Your other examples are valid, but they are more anonymous, common to all large companies, and kind of ubiquitous. Some of it is an emotional reaction, ie "I just don't like that guy", but hey, humans are emotional creatures.
For me, I'd find it hard to buy an enthusiast automobile from someone who thinks that "All user input is error". That tells me that it's a company that cares more about technology than the driving experience. Which is fine for most of the market. But not for me.
I'm most excited about what happens to these cars in 10+ years when they are well out of warranty and the community has figured out extensive hacks/fixes for making these true track weapons that are beyond what we can imagine now.
Kind of similar to how the community supports retro game consoles by giving them extremely modern features.
I like the simple styling of these, and I think they did a great job incrementally improving it. Props to them for taking something good and making it better rather than feeling like they need to change everything.
RevRico said:I don't get this argument. "Oh Elon is a jerk I can't support him"
Yet people continuously support the oil companies actively destroying the environment? Support food companies that rely on slave labor? Support seed companies that sue their farmers because wind and bees move pollen and corrupt the precious GMO seed stock?
But "I think he's an shiny happy person" takes precedent?
I fail to see the logic behind it is all. It feels like selective, or even programmed, outrage.
It's not that Elon is a jerk. He is. Also, racist and fascistic. From an automotive perspective, it's because he advocates for behavior from Tesla as a car company that I find unethical and anti-consumer. Behavior such as removing bought and paid-for features from a used and resold Tesla and the constant promises he doesn't deliver on regarding feature commitments. There is a constant record of bad behavior.
Say what you want about the more traditional automakers, they all have vehicles with defects but there doesn't seem to be a top-down, "dare to call me out on it!" attitude that Tesla and the personification of Tesla, Elon, exhibits. That's my objection. Musk, I feel like, is the driving factor as his engineering teams seem to be very eager to excel and work with the customer. I'll bet Tesla's other departments feel the same. My concerns aren't selective or "programmed", whatever that means, but based on past behavior.
A small story. I bought a Mercury Capri in 91. Great car. The top started to come apart on it at 25k miles. I asked Mercury to repair it as the car was still within the bumper-to-bumper warranty period. They refused. I pressed them on it. I was treated poorly. I didn't buy another Mercury product. I feel like there is a high likelihood I could be treated the same by Tesla. Therefore, until I feel otherwise I won't buy one. If that's selective, then so be it.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
- Maya Angelou
didn't elon have a role in the attempted coup in bolivia to get at their cobalt? goes beyond being a bit of a jerk, plus elon is the face of the company, you probably can't even think of who runs the other major manufacturers, but elon has made himself very visible and put off a lot of people
RevRico said:Xceler8x said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Speaking of Cammisa.
2024 Tesla Model 3 Performance Full Review w/ Jason Cammisa — The Carmudgeon Show Ep. 142
I just listened to this and it would seem even the driving impressions, baring the numbers, is impressive per his experience. My niggles with the styling and switchgear may take a backseat. I'm still extremely hesitant to enter a business relationship with Elon. He's the biggest impediment to buying a Tesla at this point. Which begs the question, if you don't buy a product because the CEO is a jerk how far does that go? I'm currently debating this dilemma. I'm glad there are alternatives such as the Ioniq 5 N with more options coming.
To address your points, they all make sense.I don't get this argument. "Oh Elon is a jerk I can't support him"
Yet people continuously support the oil companies actively destroying the environment? Support food companies that rely on slave labor? Support seed companies that sue their farmers because wind and bees move pollen and corrupt the precious GMO seed stock?
But "I think he's an shiny happy person" takes precedent?
I fail to see the logic behind it is all. It feels like selective, or even programmed, outrage.
Specious argument. You're comparing necessities vs a luxury good.
Every single person must consume food. In North America, roughly 10 companies control the food & beverage industry and most of them have crummy track records if you look hard enough.
Absolutely no one is forced to buy a Tesla, and with many competitors on the near horizon, many folks are choosing not to.
IBTL
Xceler8x said:It's not that Elon is a jerk. He is. Also, racist and fascistic.
I try to keep an open mind about these things so I've read both the links you posted. IMHO, neither give credible evidence of Elon being a racist nor fascist, only that pundits read a lot into his tweets. Plenty of evidence all round that he's a jerk, tho. And I can totally understand why people are sick of him always being in the headlines, then under-delivering, or failing to deliver, on his promises.
gixxeropa said:didn't elon have a role in the attempted coup in bolivia to get at their cobalt? goes beyond being a bit of a jerk, plus elon is the face of the company, you probably can't even think of who runs the other major manufacturers, but elon has made himself very visible and put off a lot of people
I had to research this, his role was supporting the US backed right-wing opponent by tweeting "We will coup whoever we want! Deal with it."
We are in the market for pretty much exactly this. I'm also a big Elon skeptic and hear both arguments.
Others we are looking at are M2 and Type S or maybe even another GTI before the manuals disappear. We were ready a few months ago to grab an M2, but the wife wanted to wait a bit. It's a really odd cross-shop, but sorta fun.
Trying to avoid politics here, but the brand is toxic for me at this point.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/media/elon-musk-antisemitism-white-people/index.html
I love you all very much and will try not to judge you by what you choose to drive...
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