New track day toy...C6 Corvette? Or alternatives

I run HPDE and some autocross, with my dad or girlfriend co-driving.  Last car was a bolt-ons 99 Miata which worked great until it got worn out and the engine was toast.  Weekend / mainly track day usage, drove on track pads and tires.  Add fuel, go to track, change pads/rotors or bleed brakes as-needed.  After 160k and maybe 40 track days it was time to move on to something faster, and not needing a full refurb.

I'm shopping in the $12-20k range.  The less of a project the better.  Safety items, brakes (lines/pads/rotors/fluid), tires are a given.  Maybe some bolt-on performance mods over time.  But not looking for a project or I would have kept the Miata and K-swapped it.  Musts: RWD, naturally-aspirated, faster than a bolt-on Miata, weekend-streetable with title, relatively track-ready from a suspension/braking/cooling standpoint from the factory.  Prefer a sports car over a pony car, had a Mustang in the past.

Leaning towards a C6 Z51 Corvette.  I'm seeing a few LS2 2005-2007 cars in my price range; haven't seen much of anything '08 or newer (LS3).  Even for non-Z51 cars; manual and <100k miles are asking mid-20s.

I'd also consider a track-prepped E36 (a few good ones were too far away).  Have seen some suggestions here for 996...a little scared of maintenance / repair costs, and the many ads I've seen look pretty ragged out.  C5s are cheaper, tend to be pretty high miles.  Haven't seen many already track-prepped.  This would be great if it were closer to FL https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/autocrossing-and-roadracing-classifieds/4488799-199-frc-well-prepped-track-car-14k.html .  May consider a fly-n-drive if I can't find something local-ish.

I'm aware of the LS2 harmonic damper issue.  I'd avoid magnetic shock cars on principle (simple / repairable = better).  Can a Z51 LS2 car hold up to 95F track days on street-ish tires?  Cooling / oil temp / oil pressure.  Any other issues to be aware of up front?  Z51 cars tend to be harder to find, but I'd guess the coolers & brakes are worthwhile for my usage, vs. upgrading a base car.  They don't seem to carry much cost premium vs. base at this age.

I could maybe stretch to the 08+ models but it leaves little if any room for rollbar / seats / harness and other track supporting costs or maintenance items.  I'd like to keep total expenditures into the disposable level.

Summary: seeking feedback on C6 as a track day car (problems/needs), alternatives in my price range, and leads on cars in the SouthEast.

Thanks

Matt

I autocross my C6 Z06 and I've blown up the motor.

There is no out of the box Corvette that really will do track days or regular performance driving without issues. They all have too many cost cutting measures and compromises for road use to be a consistent track day car like you would get out of a Porsche GT car, but that's expected because you're paying $50-70k new vs $150-200k. For instance, the stock dry sump on the C6 Z06 might make you think you're safe from oil starvation, but it's not actually a good dry sump at all.

There are always two ways to go with a car that has a substantial following for racing like the Vette.

1. Get the cheapest possible car you can and then add all the upgrades yourself.

2. If you find someone you can trust with an existing track day Corvette, buy that.

Assuming #2 doesn't happen here are some of my opinions regarding #1.

Aftermarket Dry Sump

I would not track a Corvette regularly without an aftermarket race dry sump system. People will tell you that you're fine, that you can overfill the LS2 and it's fine, but it's not fine. I've seen my friend that rebuilt my motor rebuilding too many stock Corvette motors used for track days for it to be fine to run without a dry sump on the car. So, spend now on that or spend later on another motor and/or rebuild.

Z51 vs base

I would not pay for any stock extras on one of these cars. No Z51, none of that. For one thing you're looking at a car that is 13+ years old. All of that stuff is going to break anyway if put to the track test. Buy the lowest end manual car you can get and replace all the stock stuff with aftermarket. If you really want to get any of the Z51 level package suspension and cooling stuff people practically throw this stuff away on CorvetteForum after replacing with aftermarket. You can buy parts like that with no miles on them from a 2013 car for pennies and put it onto your older car if you want. You want stiffer leaf springs or some bigger stock brakes? Not a problem. There are a hundred guys sitting on those parts.

That said, I wouldn't waste your money except maybe on the stiffer leafs. These upgrades won't last on track. They aren't that much better than what you get with the regular car. If you aren't limited by classing as to what you are going to do with the car then don't stay with anything stock other than maybe leaf springs if you want to keep things cheaper and avoid going to coilovers. People are quick to jump on the coilovers as the necessary track day element, but they aren't as important as oil supply, cooling and bushings. You can get some Konis for the car and it will handle just fine. You will find the limits are very high even on streetable tires.

The improved stock cooling won't be worth it either. Throw an aftermarket radiator in there and an aftermarket oil cooler on it.

Bushings

The cars have some squishy bushings. An older car will need all of them done. The front upper control arms will push the bushings out after being run hard. How long it takes for that to happen really depends on how old they are and how often you run it, but a year of regular track days will definitely have you wanting another set. Ideally you go with monoball all around, but it's expensive. Though G-Speed makes a DIY kit that isn't much more than Delrin, just takes more work to install.

You'll want to look at replacing the trans mount bushings and the motor mounts and the upper shock mounts.

If you don't do bushings all around, the car will be unpredictable at the limit.

The Rest - You already know this...

Better pads and rotors. The stock stuff won't last. The Z51 brakes aren't that much different than the base brakes. Just go aftermarket if you want to do a size upgrade.

Seats - The stock seats won't hold you in at all. You'll want something else.

Great info, thanks for grounding the situation.  Shouldn't be a surprise at 400+hp.

Any feedback on Accusump feasibility at stock-ish HP vs the full dry sump?

I have a 95 M3 that I've thrown the book at (all bushings are solid, bulletproof cooling system, suspension, 3.91 diff, cams, pistons, supporting mods). It's amazing, but it's still a momentum car. If you want to move into a faster momentum car that isn't that hard on consumables the e36 is a great candidate.

I'm hoping to replace it with a C5 Z06 or C6 GS at the end of this season. 

I would be looking at a C5 z06.  Cheeper starting point and a C6z06 and for me at least it has enough go and stop for me.  

Is your 12-20K your all in $$$ or just the price of the starting point?  

Miata to a corvette is a big jump.   What about a 350/370z   I don't know how they are as track cars but they seem to be a nice middle ground between a corvette and a Miata.  

There are a few c5 track cars for sale in varying degrees of race prep on the corvetteforum.com. 
 

I like my c6z and there are issues but it's a monster that has no business being fully streetlegal with a full interior

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/autocrossing-and-roadracing-classifieds/4493062-2006-c6-z51-hpde-track-car-for-sale-or-trade.html

There were two others I saw.  One is pending and both are beyond your stated budget.  
 

I got my z06 for $25k but put some $$ into it to fix the heads and the oil issue.  The oil starvation issue on the factory dry sump is a pretty easy fix, and about $3-500 if you do the work yourself. 

Absolutely no to corvette and absolutely berkeley Yes to e36.

Or you could buy my 400whp LS1 racecar for 24k and have the best parts of the entire universe.

Corvette all the way!

You're going to have sticker shock when you start buying tires for a Corvette vs a Miata.

Consumable on a vette will be much higher, but not crazy for it's capabilities.

If looking at a C6, avoid 05s because of the diff. They have a one year only diff that's pretty fragile. A buddy literally ejected his from the car, doing a drag launch on street tires. Then it is much harder to find a replacement since it's a one year only, and a bear to replace also.

I would recommend a z51, anecdotally, I have heard good things about the stock stuff on a stock car.

Personal experience says the Z51 cars are pretty common but most normies don't know they have the option. When we were shopping for my friends C6 we saw a ton of them but almost none were listed as Z51. He currently has a Z51, that we found out was a Z51 when we got there and checked RPO codes.

My personal recommendation is a C5 Z06.

It appears base model C6s are still depreciating, where the c5s z's are most special and probably likely to hold their value better. I've been told by guys at the track that the C5 z is the better track car to flog. The Ls6 has less oiling issues than the Ls2 on the track. The Ls6 is also way less likely to drop a valve and eat itself than the LS7 in the C6 z06.

Im also pretty sure you can still run 17s all around on a C5 Z, greatly reducing the cost of one of your largest consumables on a vette, tires.

Edit: just know drivetrain parts are a pain to replace on a vette. At this point torque tube busings are all old, and I would look closely at replacing them with the solid bushings or even new rubber couplers prior to hard track work. Clutches aren't fun either.

Subscribed. I was looking at C5s for a while as a track toy before I got involved in Lemons.  We run an E36 there and I can see why they're so popular.  Lower cost of entry, consumables, and it's easier to install a cage or roll bar than the Vette.  Of course, we're running one on a budget and there's plenty of ways to break the bank if you'd like.  I can see why someone would say they're a momentum vehicle though, especially compared to the thread's titular car.

A brand new TonyKart Racer 401R KZ with a Vortex RoK Shifter engine will come in around $9500. 120 mph, 12 second quarters, 2.5g on a rubbered in track, $220 sets of tires, 3 gallons of gas per day. 

Matt B (fs) said:

I can see why someone would say they're a momentum vehicle though, especially compared to the thread's titular car.

After you get used to it, all cars are momentum cars. :)

If you break track cars down into tiers of cost/speed, the best choices at each level seem to be Miata, E36/E46, and 911.

Check your buy-in and first-year operating cost and compare it to that of a Rush SR. If you're not going to go the whole way to a 200#  kart, you can still get a 1000# car that's a lot easier on brakes and tires.

S2000 not an option?

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

I think when your talking about normal 911s the vette is the better track toy, and many times considerably cheaper. When comparing them to their same year generations, many times the vette will have similar capabilities, larger aftermarker, and cheaper consumables.

Seems like C5Z would be the easy button since you have the whole recipe from GRM.  Didn't  JG Pasterjak just spend hours and hours live-streaming on YT?

Opti said:

I think when your talking about normal 911s the vette is the better track toy, and many times considerably cheaper. When comparing them to their same year generations, many times the vette will have similar capabilities, larger aftermarker, and cheaper consumables.

My assessment is just based on what I see at the track -- IME there are far more Porsches out there than Corvettes.  It might be geographic (SF Bay Area is a fairly well-off area), but I see a lot more E36/E46 and Miatas than Corvettes too, so "more people are rich" doesn't explain it.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Matt B (fs) said:

I can see why someone would say they're a momentum vehicle though, especially compared to the thread's titular car.

After you get used to it, all cars are momentum cars. :)

Heh. Fair Enough.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/autocrossing-and-roadracing-classifieds/4488799-199-frc-well-prepped-track-car-14k.html

C5, the C6 isn't that much better for double the cost.  I know, I've had 2 C5 track cars and prepped ones are definitely in your budget.  I put a new engine in the first one I had and it made 440hp at the rear wheels.  FRC is the one to get.  No price premium like the Z06.  With the money you save you do head, cam, intake and tune and you have more power than a Z06.

Just sold my C5 FRC to a buddy for $10k.  It had 50,000 miles on it.  It was a "friend" discount, but they are out there.

Just get the silver FRC that's in the link.  You couldn't build a C6 that's faster, for double the money...