Newer engines & their ecms

Many of the newer engines would be awesome swaps in lighter cars, but over and over again I'm told you can't use them because their ecms "expect" this sensor or that sensor, but I've recently found out that GM and to a lesser degree Toyota has some way to delete these needs and be used in other vehicles. 

300ish Toyota V6s are being stuffed in the back of MR2s apparently.

How do they do that?  Or rather what do they use and is it something us mere mortals can lay our hands on and use rather than having to trust a shop to do it for us.

Somehow they end up with engine only harnesses.

Some nerd at a programming desk builds a piece of hardware to emulate all required sensors and then a company sells it for big bank to poor college students that are studying programming. 

Its full circle. 

In the case of GM, especially the LS engines, there are standalone harnesses and ECU's plus reprogrammers available to turn on and off certain sensors.

Ford, Dodge and other manufacturers are slowly catching on to the "crate engine" solution like GM has provided for their LSx engines.

Look at Loosecannon's GM-turbo 4 powered MGB-GT, it uses the engine from a modern GM/Buick and he used a factory harness with an unlocked ECU that had several options turned on and off, plus other changes.

GM computers tend to be swappable into other cars because the PCM will get everything it needs directly, not via network from the ICP/ICM or ABS or BCM or whathaveyou.  The only exceptions are drive by wire cars with separate TACs and later cars with separate ECM/TCM instead of a PCM, but you take those modules with you with the swap anyway. A swap won't be missing data the computer is looking for.  (Even the fuel level goes to the PCM, because it needs that for evap strategy, the ICM gets its fuel level via CAN.  Come to think of it, there aren't any gauges that aren't getting their data from the PCM!) 

The rest of it is chicken and egg - the engines are popular, so the tuner companies put more effort into cracking the computers, which also makes them more popular.

As far as i know, there is still no real way to run a Solstice GXP engine PCM in a chassis swap, though, so it certainly isn't everything.

Solstice GXP engine PCM in a chassis swap

There was recently an 2.0 turbo ecotec-swapped Volvo 1800 on The Smoking Tire, but i forgot the name of the company he said was the only one so far who got it to work. Engine was from a Cobalt SS and trans from a solstice/sky. 

And those engines are hard to come by, making that a rare swap as it is. 

I thought ecotecs were easy swaps? Or is the one in the GXP special?

It's been a while, but in my jbody days, seemed everyone was after one. Plus the ecotec miata exists. 

The ecotec grows on trees but not in turbo form

Vigo said:

Solstice GXP engine PCM in a chassis swap

There was recently an 2.0 turbo ecotec-swapped Volvo 1800 on The Smoking Tire, but i forgot the name of the company he said was the only one so far who got it to work. Engine was from a Cobalt SS and trans from a solstice/sky. 

Apparently, the guy who built the 1800 sent the haraness to enginewiring.com.  See the second post on this page - http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16309&start=15

I've seen a few engines on Ford & GM sites but mostly those are V8s or the turbo 4's. 

And recently I've seen the newer V6 from Toyota and GM being swapped some, and those are not supported by factory ecms nor can any of that stuff be bought from the factory so what software are people using to being swap those?

A 300 hp V6 would be nice in a lot of cars.

RevRico said:

I thought ecotecs were easy swaps? Or is the one in the GXP special?

The GXP has the direct injected 2 liter.

When in doubt go for megasquirt or carburetors! But seriously anything is possible with enough time and money, unless your ECU isn't even flash based. Those modern ecu's are seriously powerful these days.

freetors said:

When in doubt go for megasquirt or carburetors! But seriously anything is possible with enough time and money, unless your ECU isn't even flash based. Those modern ecu's are seriously powerful these days.

Not totally true. It took forever for hondata to get the info from Honda motor Co to crack the new ecu’s. Even the K series had to wait a bit. Programmers are getting sneaky these and programming in some strange code. I know the new subie’s can’t do anything unless you have an STI/wrx. All the Imprezas are limited. 

Ford has the Control Packs for the 2.0, 2.3 and 3.5 Ecoboosts as well as 4.6 3-valvers, Early and Late DOHC 5.0 Coyotes.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-20T

RossD said:

Ford has the Control Packs for the 2.0, 2.3 and 3.5 Ecoboosts as well as 4.6 3-valvers, Early and Late DOHC 5.0 Coyotes.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-20T

The 2.3l is the one I want to give a try once mustangs start showing in junk yards regularly. Over 300 hp in a safe stick tune. Yes please.

Most of the guys swapping 2GR-FEs into MR2s are using stock engine management from the donor car.  Either delete the immobilizer, or zip tie the key to the transponder and wire it up in the trunk.  

The 2GR has been around a long time.

Newer platforms aren’t making it easier, with the exception of some of the recent crate motor efforts, which is surprising and impressive.

The modification hobby is quickly moving toward software and coding and away from nuts and bolts.

In reply to RossD :

Yes, but Ford doesn't have them for the non-turbo V6 variant.

GM doesn't either, and yet I know a number of people are finding a way to use the LFX engine. (the LGX would be even better) I've found 3 shops that want an arm & a leg to get rid of VATS and turn off the extraneous sensors, and one shop sells a chopped up wiring harness.  I'm thinking a factory wiring harness would be safer.

The price is so high I was wondering would it be cheaper to just buy the software.  I have 3 cars dying for a high(ish) winding V6 in the 300 hp range.

 

In reply to carguy123 :

For the most part, the earlier version of the V6, which are easily run via MS, make over 250hp, stock.  Which means you should be really close to 300 with a well done re-calibration.  

In theory, you can also do the VCT on later V6's.  

What really prevents the aftermarket engine swaps is direct injection.  Everything else can be worked around.

carguy123 said:

In reply to RossD :

GM doesn't either, and yet I know a number of people are finding a way to use the LFX engine.
 

From what I've seen you can use the LFX engine with it's stock ECU and turn off all the things you don't want using HPTuners. I know some shops don't charge out the woz for that. 

Trackmouse said:

freetors said:

When in doubt go for megasquirt or carburetors! But seriously anything is possible with enough time and money, unless your ECU isn't even flash based. Those modern ecu's are seriously powerful these days.

Not totally true. It took forever for hondata to get the info from Honda motor Co to crack the new ecu’s. Even the K series had to wait a bit. Programmers are getting sneaky these and programming in some strange code. I know the new subie’s can’t do anything unless you have an STI/wrx. All the Imprezas are limited. 

Yep, my '13 135i there is just now a few companies that offer flash tuning through the OBD-II port. 

You used to have to remove the ECU and send it off to be bench flashed first, out of the car to unlock it, then after that you'd be able to flash through the OBD-II port. 

When your ECM costs more than your engine...

carguy123 said:

Many of the newer engines would be awesome swaps in lighter cars, but over and over again I'm told you can't use them because their ecms "expect" this sensor or that sensor, but I've recently found out that GM and to a lesser degree Toyota has some way to delete these needs and be used in other vehicles. 

300ish Toyota V6s are being stuffed in the back of MR2s apparently.

How do they do that?  Or rather what do they use and is it something us mere mortals can lay our hands on and use rather than having to trust a shop to do it for us.

Somehow they end up with engine only harnesses.

In the case of the V6 MR2, what you need is a person with a true passion for it. "Gouky" and his site, frakenstein motorwerks is the guy in the MR2 community who made the V6 swap fairly easy, providing modified harnesses and sources of non-immobilized ECUs.

The problems we face right now is that ECUs with go into an "immobilized" mode after accidents, sometimes even if they are plugged into a modified ECU that is missing some "key" part or signal. Gouky himself has said he's run through hordes of ECUs and despite the 2GR having no changes wether it's in a Camry or a Highlander, there are some that just don't work.

So how do you do it? Have good knowledge of electrics and be ready to stumble your way through until you find something that works. It's complicated- but doable.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Wouldn't bricking the ECU after an accident violate "Right to Repair" laws? I'm sure there's some non Machiavellian reason for doing it but I'm trying to figure out what that is currently.

In reply to buzzboy :

Thank you, finally a name for a software to do the tuning myself.  I figure if I'm doing 3 cars it will be worth it to buy the software and I haven't found a way to search that brings up ecm tuning programs.  The shops are jealous about guarding the software''s name which told me it was available to the public and must not be astronomical in price because they were worried I'd go buy it myself instead of paying them to do it.

Now I wonder if it will work with the LGX since it has some design differences that would make it a better track engine?

I'd like to put an automatic in one of the cars the one that is mostly for autocross.  I hear anecdotal stories about how they break easily, but the manufacturers are relying upon the auto for all the higher performance cars and they are faster 0-60 & 0-100 and their literature is full of all the many improvements and strength additions.  I do see that GM has a standalone transmission controller for the V8 engines, I wonder if they can be used on the V6 transmissions?  They aren't good about returning calls or emails.  They just send you to their FAQs.

I'm not a megasquirt or carburetor guy.  I've messed with megasquirt and it's like a carb, you are never through with messing with it.  I grew up with distributors and carbs and I've sworn I'll never go back.  Sure I  know what to do to make them work well, but it takes time away from driving.  I want a completely stock engine for maximum reliability and 300 hp seems to be a sweet spot for so many vehicles.

A v8 just doesn't so it for me any more.  it's bigger, needs more heat shedding capacity, more brakes, more (expensive) tires, uses way more gas when you're having fun and is tougher to package.  I prefer precision to a bigger hammer.

The LNF Ecotec is a killer choice for a swap. They are built so well that thye can be modded to mid 400 bhp range without having to replace pistons or crank.  Fueling limitations hold them to around 500 bhp without taking special measures.  For an old car, non-turbo versions work well, and you can lso get stock supercharged versions which look neat.

In a TR-6

in a street rod

supercharged in a TR-6