Nexcel - Oil Change System - Do want!

Sitting here with a NASA Tech Briefs reading about cool E36 M3.

Apparently, the Aston Martin Vulcan has a dry sump like system with an integral filter that can pump ten+ times the normal volume of oil through the engine and reduces CO2 emissions. When it comes time for the oil change you unplug the thermoplastic box with the used oil and put in a new one with new oil. 90 seconds no spillage oil change. Thermoplastic housing can be reused 5 times.

I'd be okay with this: NASA Tech Briefs Link Castrol Press Release

Wasn't BMW playing around with something like this a year or so ago?

Name one advantage of this over what we have now?

Worse for environment

More expensive

Most people are still going to be paying for the mechanic to do the job

More parts

Not space efficient

requires dry sump

How quick before crap gets into that big box and into the oil?

NOHOME wrote: Name one advantage of this over what we have now?

The Article wrote: The NEXCEL system is a sealed oil cell that contains both the engine oil and the oil filter, which means it can be easily removed and replaced by hand, a process that takes just 90 seconds. The sealed oil cell ensures that used oil is collected and handled safely facilitating enhanced recycling and reuse of the waste oil into high quality lubricants through a dedicated re-refining process. For the road cars of tomorrow, NEXCEL aims to provide three benefits: 1. Reduced tailpipe carbon dioxide emissions 2. Simplification of vehicle servicing 3. Improvement of vehicle environmental sustainability Emissions: Castrol has demonstrated that NEXCEL delivers a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions on modern engines through improved thermal management (SAE Paper 2016-01-0892, Reduction of CO2 Emissions through Lubricant Thermal Management During the Warm Up of Passenger Car Engines). Additionally, the technology paves the way for a new generation of precision-engineered engine oils delivering further engine performance and carbon dioxide benefits.

Sounds like there's a lot more science in an oil change than most of us realize.

What does this magic box cost?

In reply to NOHOME:

I disagree.

This minimizes spillage, the thermoplastic is tough and fully recyclable, there is a reduced need for holding tanks which require maintenance and leak due to the lack of maintenance. For transportation back to the recycling just palletize and go. No pumping and transfer.

Yea it's another system but there appears to be a good number of advantages to adding it.

Plus I like dry sumps.

spitfirebill wrote: What does this magic box cost?

Yes, that is the big question.

It's for an Aston Martin. Is cost really the big question?

Sorry

Not one single advantage other than marketing.

Still going to get changed at an oil change place

going to cost more to change

Don't care or believe about the environmental blither; more marketing than fact.

Fancy interface to oil box is going to fail at extreme cost.

Big honking plastic box = less recyclable than tin oil filter

Is it a cute idea that I might want in a hot-rod? Yeah for sure.

What if puts me in mind of that might actually be useful is a battery pack that could be swapped out at a re-energize station just as easy.

NOHOME wrote: Big honking plastic box = less recyclable than tin oil filter

Except for the fact that about 98% of people who DIY their oil changes throw their oil filter straight in the trash.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Big honking plastic box = less recyclable than tin oil filter

Except for the fact that about 98% of people who DIY their oil changes throw their oil filter straight in the trash.

You can recycle an oil filter? Where does this happen?

snailmont5oh wrote:

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Big honking plastic box = less recyclable than tin oil filter

Except for the fact that about 98% of people who DIY their oil changes throw their oil filter straight in the trash.

You can recycle an oil filter? Where does this happen?

You can't recycle them, but they're supposed to be disposed of as household hazmat, just like the used oil. Here in CA, anyone who takes the oil will take filters too.

dculberson wrote: It's for an Aston Martin. Is cost really the big question?

Eh it was more proof of concept in that case. They got someone else to pay for the development costs, and from working in both software and aviation R&D, that is the best kind of funding.

My heart is telling my brain it wants an 11,000 rpm V8 with all that extra oiling capacity.

codrus wrote: You can't recycle them, but they're supposed to be disposed of as household hazmat, just like the used oil. Here in CA, anyone who takes the oil will take filters too.

Wish that was the case in more places. Not much I can do with an oil filter here other than drill a drain hole, let it sit for a week to ooze out as much as possible, then toss it in the trash. Hell, I struggle to find places to take old brake fluid and antifreeze.

mikeatrpi wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Name one advantage of this over what we have now?

The Article wrote: The NEXCEL system is a sealed oil cell that contains both the engine oil and the oil filter, which means it can be easily removed and replaced by hand, a process that takes just 90 seconds. The sealed oil cell ensures that used oil is collected and handled safely facilitating enhanced recycling and reuse of the waste oil into high quality lubricants through a dedicated re-refining process. For the road cars of tomorrow, NEXCEL aims to provide three benefits: 1. Reduced tailpipe carbon dioxide emissions 2. Simplification of vehicle servicing 3. Improvement of vehicle environmental sustainability Emissions: Castrol has demonstrated that NEXCEL delivers a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions on modern engines through improved thermal management (SAE Paper 2016-01-0892, Reduction of CO2 Emissions through Lubricant Thermal Management During the Warm Up of Passenger Car Engines). Additionally, the technology paves the way for a new generation of precision-engineered engine oils delivering further engine performance and carbon dioxide benefits.

Sounds like there's a lot more science in an oil change than most of us realize.

I wonder which part of that SAE paper they claim is why it's better for CO2 emissions?

It's clearly not the "less pumped and less mass" part- since they claim to pump much more and it's not really a reduced volume of fluid.

Could be that they are using coolant to warm the oil- but that's been around for decades.

Perhaps it's thermal energy storage??

But those are the only 3 causes of benefits for CO2 emissions listed in the SAE paper.

And the benefit is small, even on the NEDC cycle (which is far from realistic). It's just over 1%. For an n=1 sample. edit- that 1% is probably lost in the energy it takes to make that box. Especially a box that can only be reused a few times.

Reused 5x within the factory recommended oil life cycle probably takes you through the first 2-3 owners.

It's actually pretty cool and I would never let a quick-change place touch my Vulcan anyway. The only thing that I didn't like was Castrol putting stickers on the sides of my car. Took me an hour with Goo-Gone to get them off!

It's not bad and this system has its place, but the manufacturer is greatly overstating the advantages (shocking, I know). First let's not compare it to a wet-sump system because this is a dry-sump system and has all the advantages of any dry-sump, including a miniscule decrease in tailpipe CO2 emissions through decreased windage losses and faster warmup.

They state that the oil can be recycled. That's true and has nothing to do with the car's lubrication system.

The oil container can be reused up to 5 times and contains the filter. A traditional dry sump (or wet sump) allows the container to be infinitely reused and has a separate filter. So the Nexcel system will produce more plastic waste.

Now here's the one real advantage: Simplification of vehicle servicing. Of course it's generally easy to change oil, but you're not in an endurance race. If you are, this system can save you precious time.

And the giant disadvantage they didn't mention: Cost. This is the most expensive lubrication system you can put on a car, a dry sump with a costly modular filter-integrated tank.

In short it looks like they're trying to sell a niche racing part with very specific advantages in racing conditions to production car manufacturers.

I linked this a couple years ago, ford was working on it as well for some cars in Europe. My understanding is that they dropped it since then. There is no improvement over conventional dry sump systems. The improvements over wet dump are not outweighed by the incredible cost.

Edit: found my original post, Nexcell. There was another discussion in another thread as well where we beat it up a bit but I'm not finding that.