Non ST-model Fiestas banned from autocross?

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I'm not getting it. How is the Fiesta different from any number of other small cars? I don't want to jump to conclusions, but my first thought is "There goes the SCCA being out of touch again".

assuming roll over risk?

Similar: Fiat 500 is not allowed but the lowered and wider tire equipped Fiat 500 Abarth is allowed.

Yes, rollover risk. There have been several STs that have gone up on 2 wheels on street tires as well. I think its the right call.

Note that it is only banned from street.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/ford-fiesta-non-st-banned-from-scca-autocross-1678736991

It's all a conspiracy by Big Automotive to make enthusiasts buy the performance version of a car instead of the price leader.

(This is what conspiracy theorists actually believe)

I find it really amusing that the OP of this thread has an avatar of a motorcycle/sidecar combo up on two wheels.

ProDarwin wrote: Yes, rollover risk. There have been several STs that have gone up on 2 wheels on street tires as well. I think its the right call. Note that it is only banned from street. http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/ford-fiesta-non-st-banned-from-scca-autocross-1678736991

Also interesting that Jalopnik article features a picture that carries two GRM logos!

JohnRW1621 wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: Yes, rollover risk. There have been several STs that have gone up on 2 wheels on street tires as well. I think its the right call. Note that it is only banned from street. http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/ford-fiesta-non-st-banned-from-scca-autocross-1678736991

Also interesting that Jalopnik article features a picture that carries two GRM logos!

It also appears to have the logo of my local club, The Furrin Group, on the door. Don't remember seeing this one at any events, though.

Interestingly, I've seen videos of some two wheeling during autocross runs, but I'm pretty sure they were ST's with sticky street tires and a big rear bar. (I.e. - "Street" class legal) Also, given where the camera was mounted, I'm not 100% sure it was 2 wheeling as opposed to "extreme three wheeling", but there was a major thud and shock to the camera recording the run when the rear end of the car came down out of a long, fast sweeper.

EDIT: Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju37Kt94dkE&feature=youtu.be Nothing in the "official" description of the video says its an ST, but there was some discussion on a local Autox forum by someone who claimed to have seen it happen and said it was an ST, for what that's worth.

Can't autocross, but is fine for Spec B and IT class racing.

Does this potentially mean anything for the mazda 2?

Juke is banned as well, which is disappointing because the Nismo R one would be interesting to run.

I'm wondering if these cars are allowed if you lower them?

Three wheeling is common on FWD cars. No big deal. Two wheeling, now that is different.

captdownshift wrote: Can't autocross, but is fine for Spec B and IT class racing.

whole bunch of suspension and tires as compared to OEM

iceracer wrote: Three wheeling is common on FWD cars. No big deal. Two wheeling, now that is different.

and the big thump reported for that particular case makes me think it was 2 wheeling …. I never ever feel my car come back down onto all 4 when it's been 3 wheeling

wbjones wrote:

captdownshift wrote: Can't autocross, but is fine for Spec B and IT class racing.

whole bunch of suspension and tires as compared to OEM

But the stupid thing is you could run a 100% stock, band from stock class car is street touring, street prepared. Prepared, mod, street mod etc and by changing the letters on the door this stock unsafe car magically becomes safe.

wbjones wrote:

iceracer wrote: Three wheeling is common on FWD cars. No big deal. Two wheeling, now that is different.

and the big thump reported for that particular case makes me think it was 2 wheeling …. I never ever feel my car come back down onto all 4 when it's been 3 wheeling

That's kind of what I was thinking too. My Spec V used to three wheel all the time, sometimes long enough that the raised wheel would totally stop spinning. From the driver's seat, I never knew when it lifted or set down.

The Fiesta fails the 'taller than wide' ratio as does the regular 500. In the past one could submit the government rollover numbers (which also took into account CG) but they stopped producing those numbers so if a model didn't get one, it never will. I believe the 2 received one and that's part of why it gets to play.
Is this right? I don't know. The SCCA has to draw a line somewhere, and this is the one they chose.

kanaric wrote: Juke is banned as well, which is disappointing because the Nismo R one would be interesting to run. I'm wondering if these cars are allowed if you lower them?

Very disappointing. Also the MINI Countryman? Guess I can autocross my Kia Soul but not a Juke or Countryman. That would be a bummer if they were your only ride.

Huh.

I auto crossed our standard Fiesta back before it was modified.

Seemed okay to me....

I'd have to test a stock fiesta with sticky r-compounds that were factory height size, but it does and has happened to other bone stock vehicles including my turbo firefly.

And the stock Fiesta's I've been in are AWFULLY tippy as it is. Same goes with an older stock Focus though.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: But the stupid thing is you could run a 100% stock, band from stock class car is street touring, street prepared. Prepared, mod, street mod etc and by changing the letters on the door this stock unsafe car magically becomes safe.

You could try that, but someone in tech, registration, or another event official should pick up on that. Section 3.1 of the SCCA solo rules applies to all cars. They specifically call out the non-ST Fiesta in Appendix A because it is a relatively common car that has the potential to roll even in street class preparation form. 3.1 still applies, regardless of what class you run a car in.

If folks want to run a non-ST Fiesta at SCCA events - Great! - but they need to figure out a way to meet the guidelines in 3.1. Lower the car, make the track width sufficiently wide, or both. It's really in everyone's best interested. SCCA is not only looking out for the safety of its participants, but also the future of the sport. Rollovers are bad for insurance costs, site retention, and site acquisition.

kazoospec wrote: That's kind of what I was thinking too. My Spec V used to three wheel all the time, sometimes long enough that the raised wheel would totally stop spinning. From the driver's seat, I never knew when it lifted or set down.

I only felt the back tire landing in my Golf when in a slalom, but that is because the tail would be dancing from one leg to the other like the car had to pee really bad. Even then it wasn't harsh, just a little bump. This being on semi-old Yokohama AVSi tires.

I never did find out if I was setting one tire down before lifting the other or if I would momentarily get the car on just the front tires

Feedyurhed wrote:

kanaric wrote: Juke is banned as well, which is disappointing because the Nismo R one would be interesting to run. I'm wondering if these cars are allowed if you lower them?

Very disappointing. Also the MINI Countryman? Guess I can autocross my Kia Soul but not a Juke or Countryman. That would be a bummer if they were your only ride.

Really? Crazy. Makes me think they should just have "warnings" for these cars and make people who run them sign a waiver. This kind of vehicle is only growing in popularity, US law is creating cars like the Fiesta, and sport CUVs are definitely a thing now. Sounds like at least some kind of rule revision is in order.

I understand it's a huge hassle to have a car roll over on your course, but i dont actually think tiny cars rolling over is any more dangerous for anyone (even the drivers) than what corner workers are subjected to on a nearly constant basis.

can't you just run outriggers like Jezza put on the the Reliant Robin in that one episode of Top Gear?

and if these things are too dangerous for closed course parking lot orange cone avoidance events, then why in the hell are the allowed to be driven by the general public on the roads??

novaderrik wrote: and if these things are too dangerous for closed course parking lot orange cone avoidance events, then why in the hell are the allowed to be driven by the general public on the roads??

I'm confused. Do you think its an irrational safety measure, or do you think all cars on public roads should not be able to roll from grip alone?