Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/29/12 7:01 a.m.

Herb Adams in his book "Chassis Engineering" seems to really like nylon as a suspension bushing material but my google-fu is weak enough that I haven't found much information on the subject.

So: What are the advantages of Nylon as a suspension bushing material? How does it compare to Poly and Rubber? Any disadvantages?

I think I can sum up all the information I've found on bushing material in once sentence: "Polyurethane squeaks, but feels better than rubber..."

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/29/12 9:35 a.m.

I have my Ti all polybushed.. I only get noise when I first move. Once it gets beyond that, it is not something you can hear over the exhaust and wheels (and my ti is not loud, but does have a supersprint system on it)

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Reader
5/29/12 9:46 a.m.

The nylon is smoother than poly, and works better in rotational applications. I have nylon bushings in the lower control arms on my Camaro (Howe racing circle track arms) and they work much like Global West Del-a-lum bushings I had in my El Camino. I did notice the center metal sleeve is thicker than it was in the stock rubber bushings. I only use poly stuff for sway bars mainly, the rest of the Camaro has either metal bushings (upper control arms) or heim joints (rear suspension control arms and panhard bar).

motomoron
motomoron Dork
5/29/12 11:10 a.m.

Even better - Nylatron - it's molybdenum disulfide-filled nylon.

One thing to note if you use the stuff - if it's going to stay wet, allow a bit of extra clearance; Nylatron has the highest level of water absorbtion rate of any plastic. It swells, and that can lead to problems w/ fit.

I learned this the hard/expensive way when I had to diagnose a mysterious problem w/ a large and very, very expensive biotech process system. It turned out a vendor had substituted Nylatron for some fluid distribution blocks that were supposed to have been made of Delrin. They expanded over time as they saturated and broke the Delrin screws that retained them in acrylic tanks, allowing the glycol coolant that flowed through them to leak into the tanks, ruining the samples in the tanks.

Graefin10
Graefin10 Dork
5/29/12 12:20 p.m.

Never used nylon but the last set of poly bushings I installed disintegrated. The car was never driven but the bushing just swelled and split in place.

scardeal
scardeal Dork
5/29/12 1:26 p.m.
motomoron wrote: Even better - Nylatron - it's molybdenum disulfide-filled nylon.

I would want Nylatron bushings just for the name. "Oh, yeah, I've got Nylatron bushings. From the planet Nylatron."

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/29/12 2:48 p.m.
81cpcamaro wrote: The nylon is smoother than poly, and works better in rotational applications.

Groovy. These'll be used for my front upper and lower A-arms (rear suspension to follow, but one piece at a time)

81cpcamaro wrote: I only use poly stuff for sway bars...

I've noticed most "performance" shock absorbers come with polyurethane bushings from their respective factories, if it were your "trackday" car and you had a plenty of "artistic freedom" would you bother changing those to nylon as well?

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac MegaDork
5/29/12 2:51 p.m.
Hungary Bill wrote:
81cpcamaro wrote: The nylon is smoother than poly, and works better in rotational applications.
Groovy. These'll be used for my front upper and lower A-arms (rear suspension to follow, but one piece at a time)
81cpcamaro wrote: I only use poly stuff for sway bars...
I've noticed most "performance" shock absorbers come with polyurethane bushings from their respective factories, if it were your "trackday" car and you had a plenty of "artistic freedom" would you bother changing those to nylon as well?

Yes, absolutely. Although if i had all the artistic freedom, i'd be skipping straight to heim joints.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Reader
5/29/12 3:53 p.m.
Hungary Bill wrote:
81cpcamaro wrote: The nylon is smoother than poly, and works better in rotational applications.
Groovy. These'll be used for my front upper and lower A-arms (rear suspension to follow, but one piece at a time)
81cpcamaro wrote: I only use poly stuff for sway bars...
I've noticed most "performance" shock absorbers come with polyurethane bushings from their respective factories, if it were your "trackday" car and you had a plenty of "artistic freedom" would you bother changing those to nylon as well?

My Bilstein shocks already have metal bearing ends, so no rubber or poly there for me. I haven't seen anyone using nylon for shock bushings, but I don't see why it wouldn't work there.

ditchdigger
ditchdigger SuperDork
5/29/12 4:27 p.m.

The benefit of nylon over urethane is that urethane binds.

The squeaking you hear is binding and releasing. This happens because urethane is a pretty crappy bearing material. It simply isn't designed for it. Nylon is a much better bearing material to improve on it you can then go to spherical bearings, bronze or roller bearings.

Binding in twisting suspension components is obviously a bad thing but a little bit of binding is better than the massive deflection capable in some OEM rubber bushings and with a routine greasing schedule you can reduce the problem so urethane is an upgrade in that sense.

Where urethane excels is in non twisting positions like shock bushings, bump stops, isolation pads or subframe bushings and if you are willing to put up with the harshness motor mounts.

If you are going all out then any twisting bushing (sway bar, control arm bushings and the like) should be nylon, bronze, spherical or some of the other choices.

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