Odyssey vs Sienna

We bought a CPO '05 Odyssey two summers ago. Mileage at the time was 36K, we're now at 52K. It's been a good vehicle, the space for both people and cargo is impressive. We bought the Honda Care extended warranty for an extra $1K or so. With all of the electronics on it (and ours is only an EX, not the Touring), it seemed like a no-brainer. The only issue is that the rotors seem to warp quickly, but I'm not sure how many times the fronts have been turned. We had them turned at 40K and they warped again shortly thereafter. I bought EBC rotors and Greenstuff pads as replacements, but haven't had the time to install them yet.

Did the 3X drain/fill on the transmission with Honda's ATF at around 45K. The fluid that came out looked to be in pretty decent shape, but I don't want to take any chances with the transmission. The '05 and up had a better transmission that the earlier models, and I think it was the '07 that got the same transmission as the Ridgeline (a big improvement).

Stability control/traction control is very aggressive in snowy conditions, but we bought a set of steel wheels and Blizzaks for the New England winters and don't have any complaints.

The Siennas we looked at didn't offer comparable options at anything approaching the cost of the Odyssey. Odysseys are equipped pretty much identically for a given trim level, Toyota seems to have more of an a la carte options menu. Finding a base or mid-level trim Sienna with the power sliding doors (my wife's only requirement) was a search that we gave up on after a tremendous amount of searching. I love the hunt for a new vehicle, so when I give up on a search for a car, you know it's bad!

96DXCivic wrote: Why the hell are companies having trouble keeping the transmission from failing?

The same reason for any other failure point... engineers are given the lowest possible budget and a very short amount of time to generate something that the public will buy. Then the bean counters slash out half of the good ideas the engineers came up with in the first place.

Small cases, small capacities, 5 or more ratios, thin castings, and short test periods are the main causes. Then they install it behind a radiator/tranny cooler that was supplied by the lowest bidder. Up through the 80s and early 90s, most transmissions were an evolution of tried-and-true designs from 20 years ago. Now as designers and engineers are pushing the limits to keep the buyers salivating, "tried and true" becomes "boring and unsophisticated."

The way to keep these things going is pretty simple. Drop the pan and replace the filter/fluid every 60k. At the same time, flush the cooler for 30 minutes with a bucket of solvent/tranny fluid and a 12v fuel pump. Pay particularly close attention to the flow. If its slow, replace the radiator without hesitation. Install a heavy duty transmission cooler in front of the condenser. I won't let a Ford 5R55, Toyota U140/240/340, or any of the newer "trouble" trannys out of my shop without a 24k GVW cooler installed after the radiator. I put a 12/12 warranty on every tranny I build, and that little trick is $40 of insurance that I won't see it again.

Keep in mind, almost all of these SUVs and vans use the same exact driveline as the mid-size cars they are based on. That U240E in your 2500-lb Camry is identical to the U240E in the 3700-lb Sienna. On top of that, people cram in 2 kids, some luggage, and 4 adults and you can see how the tranny wouldn't be up to it. What's more important is that they use the SAME transmission PCM and software, so those soft shifts and modest line pressure in the Camry are certain death in a Sienna. If you commute to and from work on the highway in one of those SUVs or vans, the tranny might outlast the rest of the car, but the very second you try to use it for its apparent purpose (as a van or SUV) you are seriously overloading the capability of the tranny. They are NOT vans or SUVs - they are bloated unibody cars with light duty everything.

In fact, just today I had a customer come in and pay me $500 for the work I had done tearing things apart so they could tow their 99 RX300 in boxes to the junkyard. To replace the planets, bearings, drums, and shells that gave out in that tranny at 90k miles would have cost them nearly $7000... and I'm the cheapest shop by far. Even the cheapest possible used transmission I could find for it was $1895 with 140k on it and they were looking at another $1000 in R&R and fluid.

I fully understand people accepting the excessive repair costs for the perception of safety features or a new quiet ride, but running this shop has fully re-solidified my resolve to not own one of these expanded cars. If you saw the amount of disassembly involved with getting a 4T80E out of a FWD caddy, or a U-series tranny out of a Lexus RX, you'd never own one with someone else's money. Disassembling the A/C, power steering, steering column, and a complete disassembly/removal of the front subframe are a bare minimum.

Thanks for the info Curtis,

Is dropping the pan,replacing the fluid,and filter an easy enough job that a caveman like me could do it Curtis? We have almost 60k on the van now. How do I know what transmission I have? It is an 06 Sienna LE.

Last year we asked the same question. The Honda and Toyota vans are the class leaders in power, refinement, ride, reliability etc - the kias, Nissans, Fords etc that we tested were fine enough but ultimately a step below the Odyssey and Sienna.

We purchased a Sienna. Used they are a couple thousand dollars less than the comparable Odyssey, and in every other area are basically spec'd out the same. 107,000 so far and t's been great. We (and I really mean my wife!) would have been equally as happy with the Honda, it just had a higher used price.

The 2006 and up Toyotas have more side impact protection, if they are in your price range. I want to say that the Odyssey transmission was upgraded in the 2005 and up models.

I just looked up used transmissions for my Pilot. Nice, low mileage examples are a dime a dozen. Well, there are tons for well under $1K anyway. On the same website, the average RX300 transmission is easily twice that. Go figure.

Mazdax605 wrote: Thanks for the info Curtis, Is dropping the pan,replacing the fluid,and filter an easy enough job that a caveman like me could do it Curtis? We have almost 60k on the van now. How do I know what transmission I have? It is an 06 Sienna LE.

You should have the U151E for the 2wd, U151F for the AWD. Same basic guts.

Super simple just like it seems. Buy 4 quarts of Coastal brand multi-vehicle synthetic ATF (P/N 28901 at Auto Zone) along with a Tranny filter kit. If you can't find that exact type, O'Reilly has one called Global multi-vehicle. You're looking for a semi-synthetic or synthetic fluid that covers T-IV or T-4 specifications. Drop the pan, let it drip, replace the filter, seal it up and refill. I suggest putting about 2-3 quarts in, starting it up, go through all the detents on the shifter a few times pausing for a couple seconds in each one, then top off while its level, running, and in park.

Just FYI... Customer came in just today with a 2000 Odyssey for us to install its THIRD reman tranny. First one went at 18k (replaced under warranty) and the second one made it to 112k. We're getting ready to build him his third.

Trannys in Odysseys, Siennas, Explorers, Taurus, Focus, VWs, Mercedes... that's what pays my mortgage.

Curtis73 - thanks for all the info about how to keep transmissions going forever!

In reply to curtis73:

Is the U151E one of the "trouble" Transmissions? Is there a gasket on the pan,or is it just a sealant that is put on the surface of the pan,or both?

What are your thoughts on towing a 3500# pop-up camper with said van with that U151E trans? I know the van is rated to tow that weight,but with what you have stated maybe it isn't a good idea. I am not sure what the camper weighs yet when loaded with our gear,and such,but the GVW is 3500#'s. I know the van has a transmission cooler on it,but I am sure it sn't a real heavy duty unit as it is a factory cooler.

I would only do this sort of towing maybe 3-4 times a year,and not real far distances. I tow the camper with my full-sized van now,but I would like to downgrade the size of vehicle I have to drive as a daily,and though that we could tow the camper with the "nice" car in the family.

Just anohe reason to buy a manual trans. Too bad they are becoming imposible to get unless buying a sports car or stripper econobox. Can't even get them in many trucks anymore.

On topic, we leased 2 2nd gen odysseys back to back and had literally zero problems with either. The first was a base model and the second an EX. Drove the Sienna both times and I hated the drive, they were palpable smaller inside and the cost was more new. There's a reason Odys get a premium used, they are the best van out there.

Curtis, on the topic of transmissions, I asked the dealer to flush the fluid on my 750Li at 60k miles. Stupid me didn't specify to change the filter, which is intergal to the plastic pan, so it wasn't done. How big a deal is that on that car, with the ZF 6HP26 unit?

Have friends with both, agree it's a lot of french vanilla vs vanilla bean.

From a sporting handling perspective, I'd give the nod to the Honda. It's more nimble and zippier.

From a utility perspective, I'd give the nod to the Toyota. It holds more and folds up in more interesting ways.

Aw heck, go drive them both. See how they feel to you personally.

Mazdax605 wrote: In reply to curtis73: Is the U151E one of the "trouble" Transmissions? Is there a gasket on the pan,or is it just a sealant that is put on the surface of the pan,or both? What are your thoughts on towing a 3500# pop-up camper with said van with that U151E trans? I know the van is rated to tow that weight,but with what you have stated maybe it isn't a good idea. I am not sure what the camper weighs yet when loaded with our gear,and such,but the GVW is 3500#'s. I know the van has a transmission cooler on it,but I am sure it sn't a real heavy duty unit as it is a factory cooler. I would only do this sort of towing maybe 3-4 times a year,and not real far distances. I tow the camper with my full-sized van now,but I would like to downgrade the size of vehicle I have to drive as a daily,and though that we could tow the camper with the "nice" car in the family.

Honestly... I have very little experience with the U151. Its new enough that we haven't seen many in the shop. I truthfully can't tell you if its pure gold or junk :)

The best way to know is to install a transmission temp gauge.

Well, I'm late to this conversation, but I'm looking at the exact same vans ($10,000 max) so I thought I'd share. I love the looks of the Odyssey, but my buddy recently bought one and the trans went out the next day. He suggested I research it and the 00-01 Odysseys are known as the prime offenders, but I've also read the problem wasn't really fixed until 05 or so. For that reason alone, I'm looking at the Sienna. Not as sporty looking (to me), but mechanically it seems a safer bet. My mom has an 07 Quest and although I typically like Nissan's stuff, her 30k mile van has had so many little problems, it's turned me off... broken A/C vents, broken CD player, broken door stay (that let the door open so far it damaged the door and required a completement replacement door!), broken door seal, etc.

Anyone have any experience with the Mazda MPV?

Had a co-worker with an Odyssey, apparently the newer Honda wiring uses a soy-based insulation which rodents happen to find appetizing. Despite the fact their van is garaged, in the city, some critter managed to chew through an ABS sensor harness.

When we were doing the minivan thing a few years ago, it came down to either Dodge or Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager. The Dodges seemed really spotty with transmission failures - either you had a good one, or you didn't. All the reviews online & from people I knew with the Nissan basically said the whole van may fall apart around you, but it will keep running & driving.

We ended up with a '00 Villager Estate. It's now our Son's with 160k on it. I need to tear into the front end after school ends next month for some noise/vibration, but other than a few electrical issues & normal service for shocks/brakes/CVs, there's been no other problems but rust.

Curtis,

I think you've just established yourself as the GRM Transmission Guru!

So...How's the Toyota A750F hold up? I plow and tow with mine (2005 Tacoma).

Ah, that Ford 5R55 - install the cooler after the radiator not in front of it? Should I bypass the OEM cooler?

What fluid should I use?

Curtis is now the unofficial GRM trans. guru. /thread.

pigeon wrote: Curtis, on the topic of transmissions, I asked the dealer to flush the fluid on my 750Li at 60k miles. Stupid me didn't specify to change the filter, which is intergal to the plastic pan, so it wasn't done. How big a deal is that on that car, with the ZF 6HP26 unit?

It's junk, I will dispose of it for you once I get over my cold.

Yes, Curtis for GRM Transmission SuperDork.

Wally wrote:

pigeon wrote: Curtis, on the topic of transmissions, I asked the dealer to flush the fluid on my 750Li at 60k miles. Stupid me didn't specify to change the filter, which is intergal to the plastic pan, so it wasn't done. How big a deal is that on that car, with the ZF 6HP26 unit?

It's junk, I will dispose of it for you once I get over my cold.

And I was just in NYC last week into Saturday. I could have delivered it! And that probably explains the bitchin' cold the I have too...