Couldn't we just get the european suspension settings and regular non-fatass seats at least as an option on Fords? For God's sake we all don't need Buick suspension on our small cars and a seat that accepts the morbidly obese. Oh well I guess it's just too much to ask since right now were aren't even getting the Fiesta with the 3dr hatchback body style. I suppose our family will just have to buy another MINI.
I'd agree. I wish US made cars had Euro-spec options.
Look at it this way. Ford, GM (did), and Scion all offer manufactured aftermarket parts, so obviously there is enough of a market out there for these special parts, but not enough of a market to install those parts on a few cars that roll of the line?
I'll still buy a Fiesta, but if Ford doesn't release a sportier model in the states, than I'll just have to build my own. That's money that Ford isn't making.
I also think that sportier models tend to keep the values of normal models a bit higher as well. The SVT Focus still demands a pretty penny, and I see many kids attempt to make SVT's out of their ZX3's. Corvette guys get Z06 wheels to try and mimic that crowd. Hell, even Mitsubishi used the Evo as a way of selling the Lancer Rally Art. Personally, I think the Lancer would be gone by now if it weren't for its hot older sister.
While I agree that first and foremost you've gotta sell cars, the reason many enthusiasts won't buy a new car is because it's just not worth it. It's not worth buying a brand new hatchback that gets 30mpg, has a crappy boring interior, crappy suspension, and looks like an egg. I'm sure my girlfriend would have no problem dropping $15,000 on such a car, but I'm a buyer who you'll lose because "going new" just isn't worth it.
If the manufacturers want to sell cars, they'll make new cars worth the money.
I'd easily pay $18,000 for a sporty, 35-40mpg hatchback, but it needs to be worth my money...otherwise that 5 year old cars of another manufacturer will come first.
It doesn't have anything to do with the brand of the car either. I'd rather buy a used S2000 over a new Miata, a new Fiesta over a used Camry, a used Corvette over a new 350Z or a 90's luxury cars over almost all of the above. That's mostly because we as "educated" consumers are going to buy whatever is the best deal, biggest bang for the buck.
As I understand it, aside from older Honda Civic SI, a very used MINI, a ZX3 (sorta), and a few other odds and end there is no 35+MPG "sport-tuned" hatchback on the market. That's the car I want to buy, everything else is a sacrifice.
This is not great news, but at least the car looks somewhat promising. I really like this segment of small hatches and it's really the only way to get me into a new car. However, I can only dream of Suzuki Swift Sport's, Honda Fit Type R's, Fiat 500 Abarth's, Clio Sport's, etc.
kilgoretrout wrote: This is not great news, but at least the car looks somewhat promising. I really like this segment of small hatches and it's really the only way to get me into a new car. However, I can only dream of Suzuki Swift Sport's, Honda Fit Type R's, Fiat 500 Abarth's, Clio Sport's, etc.
There isn't a Fit Type R...
Meanwhile, I just saw a 5-door Yaris hatchback tonight on the way to the skatepark. I didn't know these finally made it to the US market.
I was pushing for a Fit for my wife--great to have another choice for an efficient, obscenely practical hatchback. 
really? did the us just get yari?
We've had 2 and 4 door hatches and 4 door sedans for a while. The 2 door rs hatches look pretty good but i hear they arn't much for driving. Then again scc did make one pull a g on the skid pad with struts, springs and r comp.
I wish we got the 2 door fiesta, Clarkson really sold me on it.
US got the 3-door hatch and the 4-door sedan. 5-door hatch was Euro and Canada.
The Fit still seems like a better car according to the reviews, but that might not mean anything to my wife.
peugeot had the 106 rallye model in the nineties, not sure if anyone does that bare-bones stuff anymore.
nutherjrfan wrote: peugeot had the 106 rallye model in the nineties, not sure if anyone does that bare-bones stuff anymore.
They don't. Everything is "nicely equipped" now--i.e. power locks, power windows, power steering, more sound deadening, AC, etc.
All I need is AC and power brakes (not that any car doesn't have power brakes at this point--save for exotic semi-racers). The rest I can (and do) live without.
For those near a large sized city (with a Borders or Barnes and Noble), the current issue of the British mag CAR has a huge TWO PART article on hot hatches...both old and new. It's worth a look/read, even if you don't want to spend the $11.00 + tax.
gamby wrote:kilgoretrout wrote: This is not great news, but at least the car looks somewhat promising. I really like this segment of small hatches and it's really the only way to get me into a new car. However, I can only dream of Suzuki Swift Sport's, Honda Fit Type R's, Fiat 500 Abarth's, Clio Sport's, etc.There isn't a Fit Type R...
That was the posters point.
alfadriver wrote:Stargazer wrote:Do you do the same for the Japanese?? That's ALL I'm asking. Does Toyota as a nameplate get taken off the table since there's no Camry that's AWD, V6, and manual? Or does Honda? Or are you just going with Subaru? We are talking a $20-30k car here, not a $40k Audi. My biggest gripe is that people discount Ford and GM, but allow Toyota and Honda to get away with either the same issues, or worse. I don't think there's a 3.5l Camry with AWD even in auto form. You say that thier market is "defined"- our market is the same one- high quality car to the masses. So, in essense, you ARE giving Honda and Toyota a free pass on this, you don't discount them for the evil transgressions you say we are doing. That is BS in my book, and I'm not afraid of calling hypocacy when I see it. BTW, comparing the Contour SVT to a BMW is quite the compliment. Especially when you consider the cost. Or better yet, quality. Again, all I ask is a fair shake. How you judge OUR product line up should be the same for our main competitors- Toyota and Honda. I can't really pretend to be BMW, or even Subaru for that matter. We are not them, and realistically, BMW and Subaru don't comepte with us- we compete with GM, Toyota, Honda, and to a lesser degree, Nissan. Huge masses of cars, must be super high quality to compete. Gamby- it's not really a sports suspension. It just handles well. If you are expecting a rock hard suspension that doesn't lean at all, the you'd be pretty dissappointed when you head over to Europe. But at least you discount the product before it even hit the shores...What I'm saying is that don't discount American cars for irrational reasons when you DON'T discount other cars for the same reasons. If you don't buy a Ford for "X" reason, then you should not buy a Honda or Toyota for the exact same reason. In this case, it's the super RS version of a small car that very, very few companies actually make (if you look into the actual proposed specs). That's all I ask.I don't see how discounting (most) American cars because they no longer offer a sporty sedan with a manual transmission is being irrational? I see transmission type as being pretty high on my list of priorities (as with many other enthusiasts). I would agree with you if nobody else in the world was making such a car, but when there's plenty of foreign companys selling them, it's not a hard choice.
There are no current Ford, Toyota or Honda models that interest me. I don't like the cars they're offering, period. It has nothing to do with nameplate or country of origin. If I was driving an automatic Camry/Accord and complaining about the Fusion's lack of manual transmission option, I would agree with your hypocracy statement - but I'm not. The only reason why I said I wish Ford had offered a manual transmission with the AWD Fusion is, because, as an American citizen, I want to like Ford (NA models anyway). Yes it's unfair, but only because I want to like my home team. The same goes for the other 2, but I thought we were talking about Ford. I started off by saying that I think the CTS-V and solstice/sky are a nice move from an enthusist's standpoint, and it would be nice to see Ford do something similar. Again, you can say it's unfair and hypocritical, but I want to like the domestic lineup and I want to see good things come for the Big 3 (Yes, I realize that catering to enthusiasts will not help them to succeed).
My impression is that with autos is that perception lags reality by 10 to 15 years in the general public. I understand Eric's frustration. A lot of people have worked extremely hard to get the current line-up at Ford to the level of quality and sophistication its at now. However, the perception and expectations are still that they produce undesirable crap.
My perception of Ford products began to change My mom bought a Focus in 2000. It was her first new Ford since 1953 or so. She loves it. I have uses it, when I was in Michigan and really liked it. I have had the opportunity to work at ride and drive events for few different companies. The car that really surprised me was the Mercury Milan. I really like it and have encouraged people I know that were shopping for that class of car to check it out.
I think people's impression of a car company, often for life, is closely to how their first car (or their friends first car) was to own and use. I think JD Powers or someone should be doing a survey of the ownership experience of teens and early 20's driving 10 to 15 year old cars. That will give you an idea of what you have going for you or what you are going to have to overcome to get people into your dealerships in the future. If you have a great experience with a 15 year-old Escort or Taurus as your first car, Ford is going to get the benefit of the doubt.
One thing that Japanese companies tend to do well is the entire customer experience; from how people are treated in the dealership, to warranty work, to parts availability, to how well everything works on a car when it gets to be 15 plus years old. It grows out of the extreme demands for quality and service that exist in Japan. There is a saying in Japan "Okyaku-sama, Okami-sama." It translates as "The customer is our God." With that as their background, the Japan based automakers have spent close to 40 years now cultivating their image with the general public. Unfortunately for Eric and compatriots it may very well take a long (decades) sustained effort to get to being seen as equal again.
Well they might not be building an RS, but at least we supposed to be getting this:
If Ford manages not to screw it up I do plan to put this one at the top of my shopping list. Ford if you are listening, ship it just as in the picture: keep the funky green paint, no stupid Gillette razor grill, keep the 17 inch alloys, keep the real suspension. You know, don't "fix" anything so it's more "attractive" to us dumb 'mericans.
Oh and also, supposedly this car weighs 2200 lbs. Anybody have any idea if this is the case or total crap? With 118hp pushing that kind of mass this car would be a hoot RS or no.
gamby wrote:kilgoretrout wrote: This is not great news, but at least the car looks somewhat promising. I really like this segment of small hatches and it's really the only way to get me into a new car. However, I can only dream of Suzuki Swift Sport's, Honda Fit Type R's, Fiat 500 Abarth's, Clio Sport's, etc.There isn't a Fit Type R...
Yeah, I know....that's the dream part.
I thought the hatch back civic in europe was based on the fit platform and it comes as a type R but i hear it's not nearly as good as the previous one because it is heavier with no more power.
A couple of British car mags have tested/driven the new Fiesta and several actually prefer the lower powered versions....so maybe it's not completely necessary to have max power for max fun.
In a recent issue of EVO magazine, they tested a Mini, a Fiesta, an Astra, and one other car (sorry, i forget at the moment whether it was a Pug or Renault). The consensus was that the interior of the Fiesta was nicer than the Mini, the handle was first rate, and the overall styling (except for the longish front overhang) is also a winner. By comparison, the outgoing model of Fiesta is a truck.
BTW, Astras and Fiestas are available in Europe with "aftermarket" tuning parts that up the horsepower to 200+.
mblommel wrote: Well they might not be building an RS, but at least we supposed to be getting this:
I agree w/ all of this. I think fans of European cars would be fans of a true Euro Ford coming here. Maybe I'm nuts.
As a driver of a swapped EG Civic that weighs about 2100lbs and has about 130 hp, it makes for an amusing little ride. Just enough to be fun. I think the power-to-weight on that Fiesta would be fine as well.
I'd order a Fiesta just like that. My late grandpa had an original Fiesta back in the late 1970s, and it would be cool to get a spiritual successor to his car.
However, get rid of that 118hp engine and give me a 2.0L Ecoboost. And if Ford won't do it, I'll get one on my own and add a 6 speed and LSD to the mix. I guess I could just do that to my Mazda3 instead in a few years when the Ecoboost can be found in the junkyard.
Start writing your letters to Ford!!!! We may get the Focus RS.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090406/CARNEWS/904069995
"Ford may add a 300-plus-hp Focus to its U.S. lineup. ... Ford is looking for "feedback from the media and customers," he says. "How much do they like it? Is it really what they want? We are pretty confident that it is."
Better late than never, I guess. (As long as they bring it Canada too.)
Bob
ignorant wrote:If this news is true, the reasons for the RS being canned are the same as it was the time: meager profit potential.
because mazda sure can't move their mazdaspeed3 at all...
alfadriver wrote:John Brown wrote: I can't compare you equally Eric. I will buy a Ford the next time I purchase NEW, which will likely be within 24 months because my WIFE like the cars. She doesn't like cars, she likes reliable transportation. She likes her Dodge but when it is paid off she wants a new Mustang. I won't stop her, I can get certain VWs cheap but still would rather drive the Mustang over a Golf.I do want to be clear, I'm not telling anyone that they MUST BUY X. Whatever X is. What I'm saying is that don't discount American cars for irrational reasons when you DON'T discount other cars for the same reasons. If you don't buy a Ford for "X" reason, then you should not buy a Honda or Toyota for the exact same reason. In this case, it's the super RS version of a small car that very, very few companies actually make (if you look into the actual proposed specs). That's all I ask. But, JB, I'm sure you know where to get a PIN, right?Eric
i think you may be overreacting here.
we would all be bitching and moaning just as much if the genesis coupe was available with only the nonturbo 4 and a castrated version of the v6 in the US, while the rest of the civilized world got the hotter version. we would (and did) say the same thing when honda/acura only brought a type s or Si version of the rsx/civic to the US instead of the hotter type R version sold elsewhere.
when fiat and chrysler get together, and fiat brings over the 500, and we don't get an abarth version, expect the same sort of E36 M3 storm then as well.
How do Astras and Fiestas compare? The Astra competes with the Focus and the Corsa competes with the fiesta, doesn't it? I want a corsa vxr! But that Fiesta does look good, I'll have to get the wifey interested.
The Astra is the Saturn / Cobalt. Completely different class of car.
http://jalopnik.com/5200370/305-hp-ford-focus-rs-coming-to-america
more backup to schindlaps post
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