I'm beginning to think that the reason I have a rod knock in the 4age 20v might be due to low(er) oil pressure. I had a spun rod bearing from a cheap remote filter converter a few years back. It was bad. Question is, did it clog my 16 row setrab oil cooler?
Symptoms:
Oil pressure 50 psi on start
Warm up, idle is down to ~15-20psi, engine on-speed it's 40+ psi
Rod starts knocking when warm or on initial start-up
Rod's a knockin' after a few years, so it's too late to salvage, but should I get a new oil cooler? My guess is that yes, its cheap insurance.
So with that- anyone tried or have experience with ebay coolers? They're about 1/3 the price of the $160 or so 16 row setrab or other name brand coolers.
Never ever use a used oil cooler you can not clean them.
I use B&M brand cooler its made by long in canada and sold under at least 5 brand names. The B&M boxed units are the lowest priced ones. Jeg's and Summit have them in stock.
Used a few on my Oil coolded dwarf car that motor made it 9 years and 6 trips in to the wall.....oil cooler was the 1st thing to go in a hit but hell there $65. They take a beating too. bent a few too.
http://www.jegs.com/i/B%26amp%3BM/130/70266/10002/-1
Used the same unit on a school bus that i converted to a hauler and swaped in auto trans it ran just through the cooler not the rad as there was no passage to plumb too.
44Dwarf
I'm running an Earl's curved single row cooler on my 4AGE. I'm running it because of my space limitations... It normally is a motorcycle oil cooler, but upon speaking to the folks @ Earl's, and showing them the high pressure(air) area the cooler resided in, they felt I'd have no issues.
Concerning running a cooler found on ebaY... I'd at least bring it somewhere and have it checked for burst capabilites before I used it
First off, "they say" 20v's don't need oil coolers, that it messes with the VVT.
Next, "spun a rod bearing" means Bad Things Happened. Just putting in new bearings ain't gonna fix it. Most likely, the rod is shot, the crank is shot, the piston is shot, the whole is shot. Take your pick. I paid $350 for my last 20v. Go buy another one and stick in in there and be done with it.
Next, either a new oil cooler or do without one with the new motor.
Dr. Hess wrote:
or do without one with the new motor.
I dont think you have enough pressure to run an oil cooler...
Thanks guys. Hess- I guess I didn't explain that yeah, I am well aware of the need to rebuild/replace the engine, just seeking advice as to the use/reuse of the oil cooler. Don't think I "spun a rod bearing" this time, just have a little knock. I've spun a rod bearing in the past, and you are spot on with the cure- full teardown and rebuild with new crank and rod.
Even with the 16 row cooler, I was seeing ~120C oil temps, without pushing it too hard from both the 20v's I've had, so I'm curious as to who "they" are. Most of the 4age people show lots of enthusiasm, but little documented evidence.
maybe it is me.. but I do not see the oil pressure as being too low for a cooler. Fiat 124s run that pressure or lower at idle WITHOUT a cooler with no illd effects. 40psi when the revs are up sounds good.
if you are really worried.. add a higher pressure pump to the mix
Regrettably perhaps, there is no such thing as a higher pressure pump.
Remember that all automotive oil pumps are constant volume per revolution, and run at a fixed multiple of the crankshaft speed.
The max system oil pressure is mainly a function of the pump volume, RPM, oil viscosity, oil temperature, and the design and clearances of the journal bearings used.
Most systems have a bypass that limits oil pressure to some max value (avoids bursting the filter).
Note that a single bad bearing will hog more oil flow, and so limit the max pressure, and flow to the rest.
The bearings do not support loads based on the system oil pressure, but rather from the hydrodynamic 'oil wedge' created as a result of rotation, and eccentricity.
It is the job of the lubrication system to ensure a sufficient volume of oil so that the bearings can function properly, maintaining the oil-wedge, and avoiding metal-metal contact.
So an oil pump with greater volume may result in greater indicated pressure (up to the max imposed by the relief mechanism).
But it will also eat more HP, and possibly cause more heat and aeration in the oil, eventually leading to worse lubrication effectiveness.
YMMV
Well, like I said, "they say" lots of stuff and I generally refer to it as "net wisdom." Anyway, Toyota didn't put an oil cooler on the 20v motors, but did on the 16v motors. So, why would that be? I don't think anyone knows for sure. I would kinda hate to know what my oil temp is on my 20v when I'm pushing it. Maybe it's best I don't know. You may just be "treating a number" as we say in medicine.
As for your original question, I'll stand by my earlier statement of get a new cooler or run without, remembering that Toyota went without on 20v's. Also, in Esprit circles, it is generally accepted that if you blow a motor, you replace the oil coolers, even if there are two and even if they are almost unobtainium, and the lines. The alternative of having a piece of the last motor dislodge from the oil cooler and destroy the new motor is just too expensive to risk.
What are you doing to these motors to kill them? I've been pounding the snot out of mine for 65K miles now, and it had >60K on it when I got it. Most trouble I have is I'm now using or leaking a quart of oil every 2500 miles.
First one was a cheap oil filter adapter- those $10 cast jobbies. Military move to Hawaii and the clowns shipping my car drove it from downtown Honolulu to Barbers point. In that 20 miles, the adapter somehow popped off, and the engine didn't get shut down in time. No one told me that they were driving it across the island. They only called me to tell me it was messed up as I was driving to pick it up. Somehow I had managed to drive about 20k miles on that adapter and they berkeleyed it up in 20 miles. Still seething about that one.
So the rebuild took two years (getting parts on the island was a pita). Used the tighter of the tolerances in the rebuild and I somehow have knock about a thousand miles later. Didn't even think about replacing the oil cooler. I remember reading about it, but am not sure. The other thing I did was convert the cooling to the rwd setup.... lingering thoughts about bubbles in the cooling system somehow leading to rod knock(?).
I have a remote filter adapter on the 20v in my Locost, for the oil filter and the Accusump. I safety wired it in place, having heard of problems others have had. I also plan on installing a 18 wheeler trailer LED tail light in the dash as a oil pressure idiot light. Oil pressure gauges are useful and all, but an idiot light can save your motor if it catches your attention and you react fast enough. It saved my 5SFE Camry motor. To wire the idiot light in on the 20v running a pressure sender and not the idiot light switch, I plan on designing/building a circuit to respond to low oil pressure and activate the light. Haven't got there yet, as I haven't had time to work on the Locost given my too many projects, not enough time status, but I think an op amp, transistor driver, relay, maybe a few other parts. I should have a circuit in a book somewhere.
