Oil Pan Brace Legality

I'm planning on running my FC RX-7 in SCCA STS2 in 2009, since most of the mods I plan on doing to it fall in line with what's legal in STS2 anyways. I already know the stock clutch-type LSD on the car isn't legal, but I doubt I'm going to the podium anytime soon or that I'll be challenged for it, since the FC isn't the hot ticket for this class.

The oil pan is leaking a little and needs to be fixed. There's a thread on this at the rx7club forums. One of the vendors suggested their oil pan brace and also says discounts are available for rx7club members:

http://www.banzai-racing.com/products_fc_oil_pan_brace.htm

This is a little more obvious than the LSD. I'd rather not be bumped into Street Mod for it. Rule 14.10A in the SCCA Solo handbook says this: Internal baffling of oil pans may be added or modified. Addition or modification of windage trays, crankshaft scrapers, and oil pump pickups is not allowed.

Am I to assume the external oil pan brace is illegal for STS2?

In reply to ArtOfRuin:

I'm no SCCA handbook expert, but the rule you quoted seems aimed at preventing people from adding windage trays or scrapers to separate oil from the crankshaft and increase hp. This is merely a brace to improve sealing of the pan to the crankcase and not a windage tray, crankshaft scraper or modified oil pum pickup, so I think it should be legal. But again, I'm not an expert, but I don't believe what you're asking about violates my interpretation of the rule.

It's not an internal change to the oil pan or oiling system, thus I don't see a problem.

Just email SCCA directly at solotech@scca.com .

The oil pan braces are really designed for high power engines to keep the housings from moving around, so it will work well at sealing the pan on a stock N/A 13b.

In reply to YaNi:

I'll send them an e-mail. Thanks for the advice, everyone. According to that thread, FC's tend to have leaky oil pans, Yet another thing for me to fix. Joy.

Remember, the rule of thumb with the SCCA rule book - if it doesn't say you can, you can't... at first glance doesn't sound legal to me.

derekshannon wrote:

Gimp wrote: Remember, the rule of thumb with the SCCA rule book - if it doesn't say you can, you can't... at first glance doesn't sound legal to me.

I totally understand what you're saying but that surely includes hundreds of things that could be legal even though it's not specifically mentioned. No?

Nope. Read what he said. Is your mod not specifically mentioned? Not stock? That's enough to get you disqualified.

It all depends on how much of a jerk the people in your class are. I know someone who's the local hotshoe but who was once disqualified at a local event because of the type of glass in the top to his miata.

No modification from stock is ever allowed in SCCA autocross unless specifically allowed in the rulebook. This does not seem to be a hard concept to understand. It says you can add or reconfigure the baffles. It doesn't say you can use alternate oil pans, or reinforce the flange, or do anything other than modify the baffles. So you can't.

Also, I wouldn't be so sure about the competitive disadvantage of your FC. There are many national competitors who feel that this car has serious potential for the class, if a top driver were to seriously develop one. I wouldn't go so far as to protest your car if I were running against you, but it would probably tick me off to lose a trophy to you if I found out you were using an illegal LSD. That's a part that can create a very significant performance advantage over a legal car. I gotta say, I don't at all understand why someone would want to knowingly run an illegal car in an amateur competition anyway. How much fun can it be to win under those circumstances? I know I may sound like I am being harsh, but really, this is all about fun, and disregarding rules that you don't personally like doesn't show a lot of respect for your competitors.

Josh wrote: No modification from stock is ever allowed in SCCA autocross unless specifically allowed in the rulebook. This does not seem to be a hard concept to understand. It says you can add or reconfigure the baffles. It doesn't say you can use alternate oil pans, or reinforce the flange, or do anything other than modify the baffles. So you can't.

And this is why I can't stand SCCA autocross. "Wait, you're using what brake lines on your otherwise stock AE86 Corolla SR5? Oh, you're not in stock anymore, you're in mondo ultra modified and running against that tube chassis twincharged open wheel car over there."

In reply to ReverendDexter:

Well, if you're going to even HAVE rules, you end up being obligated to enforce them exactly the same for everyone. Otherwise, they're just... suggestions. And those are sort of impossible to enforce.

In reply to ReverendDexter:

BTW, stainless brake lines are perfectly legal even in stock class for your AE86 .

About the brace: I'm still a greenhorn at autocross and I've only run in H Stock before in completely unmodified cars (aside from tires and filters). This would have been the first car I've ever run with any modifications to it in any class other than H Stock. That's why I asked about the brace.

As for the LSD being illegal: Now I don't know what to do. I DO feel bad that it's an illegal modification, and I'm a little annoyed that it's banned despite being stock (I know-competative advantage). I figured any competative advantage it had would be outweighed by it being worn out and me sucking at autocross. I also assumed the FC wasn't competative since I've only seen Miatas and Civics at my local events and only ever heard of them winning.

So, here's what I'm going to do: Since I've already sunk a good chunk of money into it, I'm going to continue repairing the FC to bone-stock condition. In the meantime I'm also going to reevaluate what I'm going to do with it competatively. If I can't think of anything, I'll sell it.

Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but I'm still new to racing and fixing up cars.

Josh wrote: In reply to ReverendDexter: BTW, stainless brake lines are perfectly legal even in stock class for your AE86 .

True... I was exaggerating to make a point.

And I do agree, rules need to be enforced. I just found the SCCA rules to be so restrictive that it wasn't fun. I understand that's probably necessary for something like national level competition where the winner is decided by a hundredth of a second or less, but at the local level where there's only 20-40 cars, I just found it to be annoying.

I much prefer the very loose rules we have with the local autocross club. You're classed based on three factors: number of cylinders, type of tire, and if you're boosted or not. There's three cylinder classes (4, 6, & 8 - rotaries are in 4, and I'm not sure where 5 cylinders go), boost just ups you a cylinder class, and for tires it's either street or race. That's it. 6 classes, no muss, no fuss.

If you're new, seriously, DO NOT worry about what class your car is in. Personal exploration of and development of your own abilities and getting better every time out is much more important than concerning yourself with little plastic trophies. Make your car safe and predictable, class it wherever it happens to fall, and HAVE FUN! Lots of people forget this part :). Once you've been at it a few years and developed your skill to a point where it really matters what car you are in, then you can decide what you want to do to become more competitive. You may end up wanting to swap an open diff into your FC and take a serious shot at STS2. Hell, by that time someone may have even proven it to be the car to have :).

This is a chunk of metal that goes on the outside of the oil pan flange to reinforce it and reduce the chance of leaks? How could that possibly add any performance advantage, except for maybe keeping oil off the track? Would big washers on the bolts be illegal too? Sometimes I don't understand SCCA rules at all.

Now the limited slip, well they have you there. Pretty much have to class up with it in there.

In reply to ReverendDexter:

Those loose rulesets are fun right up until the point that someone actually tries to take advantage of them, and then they become extremely frustrating to the people who then have no chance whatsoever to compete in a "normal" car, yet also have no clear guideline of what they have to do to become competitive themselves besides copy the guy who's winning. I will take the restrictive rules any time, it beats the alternative and limits "creative" interpretations (otherwise known as abuses) that ultimately hurt competitiveness. Then again, if your club isn't particularly competitive, why even care what class you're in? Just have fun and try to smoke your buddy's time :).

Here's the thing..

If you cheat and WIN you'll get protested. If you're actually beating people then you should pick the appropriate class.

If you cheat and LOSE, guess what, NOBODY CARES!!!

People whine WAYYY too much about unauthorised modifcations made by others who have no hope of beating them anyway.

Use the brace. If you get protested, it's a "safety" modifcation to keep you from leaking oil all over the track. You wouldn't protest a catch can now would you?

Shawn (who runs steel control arm bearings and still loses)

Trans_Maro wrote: Here's the thing.. If you cheat and WIN you'll get protested. If you're actually beating people then you should pick the appropriate class. If you cheat and LOSE, guess what, NOBODY CARES!!!

I don't get this sentiment. If you have resigned yourself to losing anyway, why not just run in the class where you are actually legal. Then you don't have to worry about accidentally winning somehow (through coneage or whatnot) and feeling crappy about your win. And if you don't feel crappy about winning in an illegal car, I don't think I understand that either.

You missed the point completely.

What I'm saying is:

If he's running an illegal car and he's still not competetive, does it really matter?

Does anyone get protested for coming in last?

I'm not saying he should'nt try to win.I'm saying until he's competetive it doesn't matter what mods he's done to his car.

To the O.P.

I don't get it, you say the LSD is a stock clutch type. Was it available stock or not?

If it's stock then you've got nothing to worry about. If it's not, just run in a class that lets you use the update/backdate rule.

Shawn

Trans_Maro wrote: You missed the point completely. What I'm saying is: If he's running an illegal car and he's still not competetive, does it really matter? Does anyone get protested for coming in last? I'm not saying he should'nt try to win.I'm saying until he's competetive it doesn't matter what mods he's done to his car. To the O.P. I don't get it, you say the LSD is a stock clutch type. Was it available stock or not? If it's stock then you've got nothing to worry about. If it's not, just run in a class that lets you use the update/backdate rule. Shawn

But what exactly is competitive? Might there be someone else in your class, on some given day, who is at a similar preparation and experience level to yourself? Is it any more or less right to ignore the rules in such a case? This sounds suspiciously like "it ain't cheating if you don't get caught" to me, and I think that's a totally wrong attitude to have in friendly amateur motorsports. I feel like if you show up, you have an obligation to yourself and everyone else to do your best to follow whatever rules have been laid forth, no matter who you are. It's just basic sportsmanship and respect for your fellow competitors. I honestly can't figure out why anyone wouldn't WANT to do so.

To your second point, STS2 allows only stock Viscous LSDs. Any mechanical or clutch-type LSDs make a car ineligble for the class, although if you have a car that was available with an open diff or stock VLSD, you can swap one in, provided you are not creating an option configuration that was never available from the factory.

I see both sides of this. SCCA has to be careful of 'rule creep'; how about the stock class rule loophole which says 'can't change the springs but the shocks are free' so you see people with $6000 worth of Moton remote reservoir shocks on a $2000 CRX?

Then there's the other side of the coin: I stood right next to someone who was getting ready to protest a stock class Miata because they had some of those stainless steel turn signal trim pieces with 'beehive' lenses. Otherwise, that car was bone stock. The rules say that Stock class cars cannot change ANY part of an OE fascia so yeah the almost protester was technically correct but was in all honesty preparing to act like a prick for a $6 plastic trophy. I guarantee you my assessment of that situation is going to lose me some friends on this board but oh well.

Then there are the mods like this oil pan brace which seems to offer no performance advantage but could be interpreted like the Formula Ford 'engine cover is free' rule which got stretched and bastardized so that people were getting downforce from the legal 'engine cover' instead of an illegal wing.

Where does it end? Answer: it doesn't.

Jensenman wrote: I see both sides of this. SCCA has to be careful of 'rule creep'; how about the stock class rule loophole which says 'can't change the springs but the shocks are free' so you see people with $6000 worth of Moton remote reservoir shocks on a $2000 CRX? Then there's the other side of the coin: I stood right next to someone who was getting ready to protest a stock class Miata because they had some of those stainless steel turn signal trim pieces with 'beehive' lenses. Otherwise, that car was bone stock. The rules say that Stock class cars cannot change ANY part of an OE fascia so yeah the almost protester was technically correct but was in all honesty preparing to act like a prick for a $6 plastic trophy. I guarantee you my assessment of that situation is going to lose me some friends on this board but oh well. Then there are the mods like this oil pan brace which seems to offer no performance advantage but could be interpreted like the Formula Ford 'engine cover is free' rule which got stretched and bastardized so that people were getting downforce from the legal 'engine cover' instead of an illegal wing. Where does it end? Answer: it doesn't.

+1

Reading back through this, I'm confused. If I'm understanding correctly, this FC came with an LSD from the factory that makes it illegal to run in a stock class? That's asinine.

ReverendDexter wrote: Reading back through this, I'm confused. If I'm understanding correctly, this FC came with an LSD from the factory that makes it illegal to run in a stock class? That's asinine.

OP is asking about STS2 not stock class. The LSD would be legal in stock class assuming it came from the factory with it.

ReverendDexter wrote: Reading back through this, I'm confused. If I'm understanding correctly, this FC came with an LSD from the factory that makes it illegal to run in a stock class? That's asinine.

My interpretation of the rules is it would be allowed in stock (ES) but not in all street touring classes (banned from STS and STS2). I do believe you can run it in STX or move to Street Prepared if you don't want to return it to completely stock.

Most regions have a local street tire class for people who technically have a Stock or Street Prepared car, but aren't running R-Compounds.

The oil pan brace would keep you out of stock, but may be legal in STX or whichever SP class the FC falls into.