On the Camry project suggestion in the latest GRM...

singleslammer wrote: Oh Snap! Staff Fight!!

We do this ALL the time.

It's true. Still buds, right Steve?

Alan Cesar wrote: It's true. Still buds, right Steve?

Absolutely. Alan and I love to disagree. Actually that 60's muscle car listed in our project section IS the very same car that I bought when I was 13 for $800 ('twas 1983). It had 14 dents, 7 rust holes, a wheezing straight six and a two speed on the column.

I totally get it. I'm lucky enough to have amortized my car's exorbitant expense over decades.

Run the test, but in my opinion, the only way to make that Camry a good read is to jump it, roll it, then set it ablaze. I'll bring the marshmallows. And if you tally the responses in this thread, I see a whole lot of interest in a Nissan article. Last I checked Altimas are appliances, too. ....andI have Kyle Millen and the 2-J rocket scientists on Speed Dial.

Steve Chryssos wrote: Run the test, but in my opinion, the only way to make that Camry a good read is to jump it, roll it, then set it ablaze. I'll bring the marshmallows.

Comment of the day right there.

Also, I would like to throw a buick regal in the ring if we are looking for boring hand me downs. Mainly because I have one. It is fairly quick for being a boring FWD grandma car.

Here's the true story of what's being talked about... young guy gets hand me down Camry (with AUTO!), mods it slowly, and autocrosses it.

I kinda like it.... Four door appliance

Alan Cesar wrote:

Steve Chryssos wrote: That crazy diesel Benzo wagon that had you seizing a couple of weeks ago is far more interesting platform -- As is a slant six Valiant or some of the other underdog cars mentioned in this thread. When you're done hot rodding a Camry, all you will have is a hot rod Camry.

Plenty of people just work with what they have, and in the end are proud of their unexpected, go-fast oddball. You know, when all you have to work with is a '60s muscle car with weak structures and bad geometry, you do the best you can and start replacing subframes. Just sayin'. :P

HA! This is funny.

Guys do work with what they have! Who hasn't owned a crap car and driven the living piss out of it racing your friends, autocross, drag racing, whatever automotive fix would scratch the itch. Hell, as dumb kids we raced a 4 cyl mustang vs a Ford Escort behind a bowling alley once! Not smart. But it happened.

Performance Bikes magazine used to have $1000 shoot-outs all the time. The writers would buy the best bike they could for $1000, it was pounds for them since they're british, and then see which bike was best. The competition would span 3 or 6 editions and each mag would have a different competition. Drag race. Track day. Touring. I think one was even about mpg. Maybe that's the way to go with this? A magazine feature about $1000 cars that were bought, fixed up, and raced by mag staff? Buy 3 cars and you're still spending less than what the BMW article cost. A good bit less. The best part was reading the smack talk between the writers ragging on each other's choices and personal work habits.

having done the spec camry thing, id appreciate that article. at that point, it was what i had. lowering, poly bushings, slignemnet, wheels, tires, seats, and stereo, i had like 800 in it. built onb a concrete floor with hand tools.

i do love this idea. its how i, my friends, and my family all got started in cars. taking the crap we were given/could afford, and making them what we wanted them to be. using all the wrong tools, junkyard scrounging, rebuilding, cleaning, painting, and cussing was just part of the deal.

i say that we should do a series of articles like this. if you want, ill even sell the spec camry for a reasonable price to use in the mag. its truly indicative of what most kids would be given, except for the poly bushings. even 4 cyl, autotragic, beige, 250k mile applance.

its nothing compared to my neon acr, or my best froends 93 sentra ser, though. so those would be good benchmark cars to compare against. no sense in trying to pick on a viper, vette, m3, etc.

michael

4Msfam wrote: Here's the true story of what's being talked about... young guy gets hand me down Camry (with AUTO!), mods it slowly, and autocrosses it. I kinda like it.... Four door appliance

Hot-linked for everone else's pleasure:

That's not awful. With a manual and a V6, I'm not seeing how this would be any worse than a Maxima. If you include the cost of the manual swap, a V6 auto Camry is definitely an often passed down appliance.

Regarding working with what you got, isn't that how a lot of us on here got into the mid 90s econobox race cars? I modded Saturns because my mom gave me one with almost 200k on it that was fun to drive. I don't feel like most people deliberately search out a Protege, Escort, Saturn, Corolla, etc. to modify and there seem to be plenty of examples of them floating around.

Yeah, the performance difference stock isn't large enough that the Camry couldn't be the faster of the two with minor mods.

That assumes you START with a v6, which are in a minority of camrys sold and like i said earlier, sort of ruin the whole 'non-enthusiast hand-me-down' aspect right off the bat by not being slow and being a decent platform. A stock v6 camry could drag race pretty much the entire early 2000s sport compact scene and win. How underdog is that? I dont think you could start with a v6 camry and try to maintain a pretense of it being something noone would want to start with. I'd take one right now!

If you assume a 2.2/auto camry, my statement stands. There's almost nothing you could do on a budget to bridge that gap that wouldnt be better spent on trading up right away.

using all the wrong tools, junkyard scrounging, rebuilding, cleaning, painting, and cussing

Oh i am ALL ABOUT that E36 M3. Even as a 'professional tech' i still highly recommend using the wrong tool for the job at home. It's a lot more entertaining and makes for better stories. And as a car enthusiast, ive found that the stories last longer than the cars in a lot of cases..

Could always do a nice G20-T P10 VS sentra SE-R article. Very similar cars but they where aimed at very different markets and the g20 suffers from not having extensive aftermarket support where the se-r shines lol

Caleb wrote: the g20 suffers from not having extensive aftermarket support where the se-r shines lol

Even the se-r doesn't have much of an aftermarket these days.

Hot-linked for everone else's pleasure:

That's a very nice car. He's taken great care of it.

I can't get past the fact that the stickshift Camrys are easy to find. Found a V6 and a bunch of 4-cylinders here in FL. Although the 'story' would be better with the one that I found in St. Augustine with a landau top.

What if our premise is not just the hand-me-down, but the fact that we can make a Camry faster than the hot-new-fanboi car?

Per Schroeder wrote: What if our premise is not just the hand-me-down, but the fact that we can make a Camry faster than the hot-new-fanboi car?

GRM Camry vs. BRZ? That would be awesome.

but the fact that we can make a Camry faster than the hot-new-fanboi car?

Well then all you're doing is taking something obvious and fleshing it out with more pictures and words. Maybe this is new to some people but that's a pretty fundamental concept to my car hobby.

Hell, in $2009 i beat the new sport package miata you guys brought in both autocross and drag on 215 street tires in a 1989 dodge sedan of similar size as a camry, and i only finished dead middle. Isnt that the same sort of thing? I built the entire car for $1400.

Considering you have the whole $20xx challenge thing bringing crazy performance from weird cars for such low numbers without the staff having to turn a wrench at all, what could you hope to prove with this camry that hasnt been implied a hundred times in the results from each year's challenge?

Im not trying to be too much a downer.. i like this idea of building a representative hand-me-down appliance into something that will inspire the down-trodden handed-down-to to take up the car hobby. I just think if you start with a manual or a decently powerful engine you're undermining the concept a little bit. There are plenty enough kids out there who JUST wish there car had a manual, or 200hp (v6 camry..), so starting with either might not bring them into the fold and is sort of an argument for the other option.. trading up right away.

ProDarwin wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: What if our premise is not just the hand-me-down, but the fact that we can make a Camry faster than the hot-new-fanboi car?

GRM Camry vs. BRZ? That would be awesome.

LOL!!!!

YES. DO IT.

Test drove one yesterday. Blew the engine on the test drive. That was, after the salesperson said, "It's ok, you can hammer it." Doh.

Per Schroeder wrote: Test drove one yesterday. Blew the engine on the test drive. That was, after the salesperson said, "It's ok, you can hammer it." Doh.

LOL!!!

Which motor?

V6.

How was it until then?

I was actually out looking for a 2 door V6 Manual this weekend... i don't know why, but i REALLY want one.

It was OK--felt a bit sluggish, but ok once it started to rev---and then when I lifted off, the oil light came on, bottom end started making noise...died at idle. We coasted back. Most likely sludge--no oil pressure--spun bearings.

checked oil before we left for drive, it was clean-ish and present.

Not as interesting as jumping, rolling, and setting the car on fire, but thanks!

Dealer called, they are putting a LKQ motor in it that is promised to be sludge free....and asked if I'm still interested. Heck yea!

Per Schroeder wrote: It was OK--felt a bit sluggish, but ok once it started to rev---and then when I lifted off, the oil light came on, bottom end started making noise...died at idle. We coasted back. Most likely sludge--no oil pressure--spun bearings. checked oil before we left for drive, it was clean-ish and present.

Given the way most Camry owners drive, this could be an issue with many used ones.