So it's finally time to take the 7 from "street legal" status to "track car only" status. I'm planning on for the foreseeable future (read: 3 to 5 years) as using it for track days, Time Trials and wheel to wheel with the likes of WRL and probably ChumpCar (EC class) for cheap track time. I'm quite familiar with cage design required for Chump/WRL, no problems there, and I'm pretty sure from former research that a well built/designed cage from Chump/WRL will get through a NASA time trial tech inspection no problem.
But I would love to try stage rally some day, and the 7 will probably be my girl for that. It's at least 3 to 5 years out before that can happen, though! My question is, has anyone come across any good build threads/diagrams that show the commonalities between the cage designs required for Stage? I'm of course reading the rulebooks for various rally organizations, but I'm having a bit of trouble conceptualizing some of the specs called out and how they mesh with the other three groups I'm interested in driving with.
I don't want to bother tech inspectors with the rally groups with a "hey, I might join you guys in 3 to 5 years.." question, so I'm bothering you guys instead :)
I'm just looking for tips & tricks before I buy any material to build a cage that will be able to be easily modified to fit if I'm ever able to go down that route (probably unlikely, but I'd like to plan ahead).
I think this covers the vast bulk of it
http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2012-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf
For my cage I used all 1024 DOM. 1.75x.090 for the main sections and 1.5x.090 for all secondary tubes. Mine is built for hillclimbs, so I would need to add some to the jungle gym for full rally duty. The idea was to get the foundation right and add on what I need as I need to.
"7"...as in Lotus 7? The following won't really apply, since its not a tintop, but I'm not sure an open car would fly with stage rally rules guys anyway, so here goes:
Rally generally follows FIA spec, which is designed to have the roof support a D9 Cat, but doesn't really do as much for side intrusion as an SCCA design. Tubing spec is pretty much the same for both bodies. Build it from DOM 1 3/4 .125 wall, and there isn't anybody I know of that will reject the tube size. Downside, is you can get away with a much lighter tube for roadracing.
The door bars are where the "mutually exclusive" situation starts to kick in. SCCA wants nascar style door bars, which involves hollowing out the drivers door and removing the side window. FIA is more concerned with easy access and functioning windows, so you would have to talk directly to the people in charge of the events you want to go to, and get their blessing. Theoretically, in the political world of motorsports, FIA trumps all. In reality, SCCA doesn't really believe that.
Also, as God is my witness, I've never come across a more difficult set of rules to read than the FIA rules.
Edit: RX7, maybe, based on the magic spinning triangle avatar? Unless you are under 5"6", count on beating your head on the roof tubes with an FIA cage.
Dave - that's one of the ones I was trying to get my head around, thanks!
Streetwiseguy - Yep, Rx-7. Sorry, I realized I only called it an "RX-7" in the title, not the body. At least it's an FC, I was hoping to get away with an "RB-4" style roof bar as as shown in the document linked above and prevent some drain bramage.
The door thing was my biggest concern, to be honest. It seems pretty convoluted, and you summed it up pretty well, so that's going to be the "Trick".. I wonder if I could get away with abusing the "2.7 - Door Bars" exception listed above where it states that "Door bars may be removable, but this is strongly discouraged." I wonder if it would be kosher to make the NASCAR style door bars with bolt in "X"s when the time came?
I've seen a very nice deal for removable door bars, but I don't remember where. Hot Rod magazine, maybe, because NHRA has no trouble with dumb door bars. Basically weld a strip to the front edge of the main hoop and the back edge of the front down tube, make two door bar assembly and bolt either in. You could theoretically have one gutted door and nascar bars, one normal door and rally bars, and remove the bars completely for street use.
I believe NRS allows NASCAR bars on a case-by-case basis- might be worth contacting a scrutineer.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote:
I believe NRS allows NASCAR bars on a case-by-case basis- might be worth contacting a scrutineer.
Yeah, I think I'll have to bother them.. I just hated to do it with a bunch of hypothetical stuff..
Dumb question: I have a drill press and angle grinder. This project will get a chop saw, but what's the best source for a tubing bender? Is that something you can rent reasonably easy?
It looks like the biggest thing to deal with is the door bars as mentioned above, due to the FIA requiring all door crash bars and everything remain intact. So, to pull this off I'll have to get them to sign off on swappable door bars and a spare set of doors. Shouldn't be that bad... I'm going to draw up some plans and shoot them off to various organizations' scrutineers guys to get initial feedback.
DaveEstey wrote:
I think this covers the vast bulk of it
http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2012-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf
For my cage I used all 1024 DOM. 1.75x.090 for the main sections and 1.5x.090 for all secondary tubes. Mine is built for hillclimbs, so I would need to add some to the jungle gym for full rally duty. The idea was to get the foundation right and add on what I need as I need to.
Hey Dave,
How do you determine what's primary and what's secondary? Or do you just mean all the gusseting/cross bracing pieces?
Thanks!
Honestly man... I wouldn't do it.
Not trying to dissuade you, but the fact is, road race cars and rally car don't mix. The compromises you make will be severe, mainly for the road racing portion.
As a bonus, fwd rally cars that are virtually ready to go are dirt cheap in the USofA. If you can get past the wrong-wheel drive portion, you can still get your kicks. I suggest moving forward with the RX7 for road racing, and scrape some cash together for an inexpensive, used, prebuilt rally car.
And again, not trying to E36 M3 on your parade, but the simple fact is that if you can't afford a car for each, you can't afford to run enough events in either type of racing if you try to do both at the same time. If you really just want to check the "rally" box on your bucket list, rent a car. Hell, a badass Mitsu Lancer running 185whp and E85 is available for rent on specialstage for $1k per day plus wear items which is an insane deal!
HiTempguy wrote:
Honestly man... I wouldn't do it.
Not trying to dissuade you, but the fact is, road race cars and rally car don't mix. The compromises you make will be severe, mainly for the road racing portion.
As a bonus, fwd rally cars that are virtually ready to go are dirt cheap in the USofA. If you can get past the wrong-wheel drive portion, you can still get your kicks. I suggest moving forward with the RX7 for road racing, and scrape some cash together for an inexpensive, used, prebuilt rally car.
And again, not trying to E36 M3 on your parade, but the simple fact is that if you can't afford a car for each, you can't afford to run enough events in either type of racing if you try to do both at the same time. If you really just want to check the "rally" box on your bucket list, rent a car. Hell, a badass Mitsu Lancer running 185whp and E85 is available for rent on specialstage for $1k per day plus wear items which is an insane deal!
Yeah, that's probably the right way to go about it, honestly... And that way I wouldn't be banging my head on the roof bars every time I strap in, but man it's tempting.
