Opinion on building car vastly beyond your driving skill.

Ok so many of you know I have mostly finished the 550 spyder, still a bunch of cleanup to do, I have really enjoyed the the process and want to start another project. I want to start the 917k build I have been mulling in about 6 months once the 550 is really truly done and sorted for road rally. I already have all of the suppliers located and I have sold the Cadillac and a few other things to get the ball rolling. This is a 4 year project based on how I want to do this, this will not be cheap ~120K USD, and it will not be like the 550 I am going all in to build as accurate as I can in terms of power to weight and handling of the original. 

So the real question is this this is going to be so far beyond my ability to drive it that its not funny. I own/owned some bonkers stuff and I can put a very fast car into a corner consistently but lately as I get older that is getting harder and harder to do that. I took the Viper out and maybe its my age but I just cannot handle it as well as I could 10 years ago. I bet I am 5-6 mph out of the max corner speed it can do even on street tires maybe more now. Maybe its just the limits of modern tires or maybe its my age but its getting worse for sure. 

So I guess the question is to I even start this project or do I go do something else a little more sane. FYI a little more sane for me is a Auto Union type D build with low power or maybe a street legal belly tanker. Building a low power say ~500hp NA motor, over the ~1100hp turbo motor, in a 917K is still a 3hp/lb car with limited aero and I really want to go all out on this one. 

Build what you will enjoy. 

you could argue that every car you can own is beyond your skill level to drive - as a universal truth for everyone. 

Build what you want!

Most of us never hesitate to buy cars vastly beyond our driving skill, so what’s wrong with building one instead?  

Yup. Build what you want to OWN. not what you can extract every drop from. 

Also, i think age and the realization of mortality go hand in hand with slowing down from max ability. as well as the fact that our reaction times get slower. 

Every car I've ever built has been beyond my driving skill. I pretty much always get beaten by my co-drivers. 

Build what you want. 

Is it going to have a flat 12????

It's fun, especially if the car does not have offensive cam lope/surge when you drive like a normal person.  Also, we have the excuse of coronavirus to avoid (presently) inserting such a vehicle into an appropriate environment for testing (at least I do).  Approaching in stages is good.

wearymicrobe said:

So the real question is this this is going to be so far beyond my ability to drive it that its not funny. I own/owned some bonkers stuff and I can put a very fast car into a corner consistently but lately as I get older that is getting harder and harder to do that. I took the Viper out and maybe its my age but I just cannot handle it as well as I could 10 years ago. I bet I am 5-6 mph out of the max corner speed it can do even on street tires maybe more now. Maybe its just the limits of modern tires or maybe its my age but its getting worse for sure. 

I forget what driver said it (Stirling Moss, maybe) but the time he know he should stop racing professionally was after the race he remembered looking at the tach and could remember the reading he saw.

Nothing wrong with recognizing your limits, but nothing says you have to drive at those limits.  Build the car that will make you happy.

First there is nothing wrong in driving a car well inside it's limits. The fact that you know you are well inside the cars limits is a very good sign.

What gives you more pleasure building or driving?

If it's building then go for it. Build the car, then drive it a few times and sell it on after a bit.

If it is driving then pick another project or spend the time and cash on going to events with the 550.

Tom has good questions and I'll add . . . 

Could you have driven a 917 to its limits in your prime? Not intended to insult just something to ponder.

There was a gentleman the drove with us in NASA when I started. He was driving some very exotic cars in HPDE1. Think Porsche 918 and that sort of thing. He used to drive time trial, then back to the open passing groups of HPDE and then to HPDE1 where the only passing was points. He was in his early 80's and he stepped down his driving to fit where he thought it was safe. He still had fun. He still got to exercise some fantastic cars in an environment that was appropriate. He still got to hang out with his son at the track. 

I don't think driving a Miata at 10/10ths is as dangerous as driving a Viper at 10/10ths, but I do think driving a Miata at 10/10ths is more dangerous than driving a Viper at 8/10ths. 

Drive whatever makes you happy, stay within your limits, and always be aware that they're changing. That applies to all of us. 

I think you just need to add a TaG or shifter kart and operating costs into the budget - the driver is an integral part of a car's performance and can be developed like the rest of them.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Can't you do both?  I went from the 54 horsepower stone stock MGTD  to  the 300 hp 2000 pound  DType race car. Then I started getting my 600 horsepower XKE V12 ready. 

I autox a car that is beyond my driving skill (3.5lb/hp). It's really fun to drive on an autox course because if I screw up it's not a big deal. On a track I actually prefer something more sane as I can push it closer to the limit. I don't Have the skill or the time to develop the skill needed to drive a really fast car at the limit, but I still choose to drive it because it's so much fun. 

First off, I detect that you are in this game as much for, if not more so, the build challenge. So build whatever you want that pushes those skill limits.

As for driving the thing, the only way I see a negative outcome is if you build something that does not work on track until and unless you develop some crazy aero inducing speeds. I seem to recall an episode of TopGear where this was being demonstrated with an F1 car that kept spinning in the corners because Clarkson or whoever   was was not going fast enough to make the aero force nail the car to the track.

I seem to recall a story about a LeMans winner driving a 917 and he kept praying that it would break so that he could stop being scared the whole time.

Build a car you will enjoy driving and set it up in a way that fits your performance driving goals. Even if that means you leave overall speed on the table. 

Set the car up in a way that you will find predictable within your limits. That may mean setting the suspension up softer in some ways to prevent it from being hard to take up near the limits you want to go for. It may mean putting the car on a more forgiving tire and working around that. 

Are you the sort of person who can avoid the red mist and operate something at a level where you feel you're within your limits, or do you have to, as the probably now-outdated phrase goes, "go full send?"

I'm sure there's a pace where you can drive a 917 safely. The question is whether that pace is A) something you're willing and able to maintain, and B) satisfying to you.

It's a remarkable type of car, and it seems like driving one would be fantastic, full stop. But I can also conceive of the idea that if I was forever puttering by the car's standards, I might feel like I was somewhere on the continuum between having it on display and actually experiencing all of what it is. Have you really experienced a 917 if you're not exploring its limits every so often? I genuinely don't know. I think "yes" and "no" are both solidly defensible answers.

I don't know what the market is for replicas, or how you feel about risking the time and money for an unknown return if you build it and discover you don't enjoy driving it. Will the build and answering that question be worth something? Is the number of 917s around low enough that a really well-done replica will sell well?

I feel a bit silly even offering my thoughts; I've done a handful of track days on bikes, and only one in a car. Still, it seems as much a philosophical question as a practical one, so I'm hitting "Post."

Give no concession to age.  Build something that you are afraid to drive!

Every car I've ever driven has been above my skill set, I've been careful and still had fun with them, though the idiot that let me play with a modified at Thompson probably should have had more sense. 

You never have to drive anything at 10/10ths. 

Just make sure to say this short prayer:

I think most of us build cars that are better than we are as drivers. Turn the keys over to a pro and watch lap times, ET's, or whatever drop almost immediately even though the pro has far less seat time in the particular car than we do. How many challenge car owners beat the pros times on the Auto-X?

I say BUILD IT!!!!!    But, please have a pro paint this one.

@frecnhyd sure you can absolutely do both.

From my standpoint I like to drive something I can get the most out of but as I said I have no issue with driving well within a cars limits.

Jesse Ransom brings up a good point about red mist; years ago a friend asked me about driving my D-Sports Racer to which I replied "you'll kill yourself". It is one thing to overdrive a Spec Miata but when you get into a frontline car it is very easy for it to go horribly off the rails if you don't respect them.

If you can respect the car then build it.

I think when it comes to driving, the perception of being slower with advanced age is a side-effect of experience teaching you where the limits are.  

There are a lot of cars that just don't work outside of a very narrow performance envelope.  That's no freaking fun at all if you aren't willing to keep it there.  

I say detune it to something that is just a little bit hairier than you're willing to push it.  

On a philosophical level, ANY car is beyond your driving skills, because there is always more that can be wrung out of ANYTHING.

Even when Sebastien Loeb got a faster time at Pikes Peak than the computer simulations calculated was possible, he admitted that there was some more time left in the car that he couldn't find.

Build what makes you giggle, drive what makes you happy, accept that you aren't going to get the most from it, strive to get better.