Opinions on tire alignment service

Just finished getting a wheel alignment at Just Tires and they used a Hunter (not sure of the brand). Initially I went to a Toyota dealership to have them look at the alignment for free. First set of pictures are from the Toyota dealership.

https://imgur.com/a/tyqHIwp

After going to Just Tires this is the before and after data sheet that I received. They only worked on the front right that was out of spec. I feel like they should have done more especially with the rear left that was very close to being out of the acceptable range.

https://imgur.com/a/D4JbV6X

Just wondering if I should go back and ask them to re-adjust the alignment? I'm not a car person so any advice would be appreciated.

In reply to zxcv123 :

If it's within spec what's the problem?

"Spec" is really wide.

Also, alignment machines aren't very repeatable.  No sense going for the Nth when you can hang the heads again and get something completely different.

Most tire shop alignment places are lazy. If it's in the green it's good enough for them. Getting it exact takes a lot of time consequently a lot of money.

In reply to purplepeopleeater :

I was just more curious if the alignments/values should have been within the middle of the manufacturers range. Wouldn't that be most optimal?

In reply to freetors :

That's what I kind of figured especially when going to a chain shop.

In reply to Knurled. :

Okay thanks, I guess I won't worry about it much. It was more of me wondering if I wasted money, especially if I need to align later down the road if things that were close to being out of spec do end up in the "red".

zxcv123 said:

In reply to purplepeopleeater :

I was just more curious if the alignments/values should have been within the middle of the manufacturers range. Wouldn't that be most optimal?

That's what I've always tried for.

I have been schooled lately on just how incompetent  most shops are. We recently purchased a new set of wheels and tires from a major tire retailer and have been having a problem with with them. The retailer has been good about having us take the car in to get fixed but after multiple trips to the professionals we still have no answers and still hve the problem. Alignments seem to be the same issue around here. One of my kids is an auto tech and when he lived around here I could get exactly what I needed. Now I can't find a shop that will even look at the race car locally. Count yourself lucky if they didn't break something they shouldn't have touched and that the car drives reasonably well. My best suggestion would be when you need another alignment see if you can find an independent shop that works on performance vehicles.  You will have to pay a little more but it will likely be well worth the effort. 

If the car has no symptoms you aren't going to get anything out of taking it back. If they're annoyed with you they'll just have two techs push on the offending tires to make the screen look just so while another guy prints it. Keep in mind the green range consists of tenths of one degree and the margin of error of the machine is not much smaller than the green range is. 

I started doing my own alignments because at least then I knew what I had and could get what I wanted.

Then I did a few alignments for friends.

Then it became friends of friends.

Then people were coming to me because they heard I was good.

And it started to become less fun.  More like work.  And you get those less-savoury "customers." 

Learn to do your own.  It's not that bad, and you can be every bit as good, if not better, than your local shop.

(I don't do them on the side anymore.  I felt it was heading down a bad path, one I didn't want to be on.)

In reply to zxcv123 :

You didn't get an alignment, you got what is called in the industry a "toe and go". The second shop moved 1 tie rod end called it "good enough". That;s BS work that takes 10 minutes or less. I would god back, your thrust angle alone is crap.

Also, the Toyota place amazes me at their lack of information. They don't give you your actual numbers at all!

The current thrust angle is five hundredths of one degree.  If i was trying to shoot you in your left eye from 50 feet away and I was 5/100ths of a degree off... i would still hit you in the left eye. I just verified this with an angle/distance calculator. 

If this car doesn't pull you are on a wild goose chase. If it does pull the cross caster would be the first thing i would look at, but we don't know if it's even adjustable because we're like 10 posts in and still don't know year make and model. Somebody sticky this as an alignment FAQ thread. 

I recently bought 4 new tires at a local large tire shop. Included with the purchase is a 4 wheel alignment. The guy at the register showed me the before and after results, and it showed the drivers side camber in red on both the before and after. I inquired about this, and he said that the camber wasn't adjustable on my car. I said "I highly doubt that" and questioned how a modern car would not have camber adjustment? He then brought over his alignment book to show me that the book say there's no adjustment, but I saw that it indeed did have adjustment, and pointed it out to him. He then grabbed the alignment tech, and asked him about the camber adjustment. He shook his head, and said no, there is no adjustment. So I paid for an alignment, and really didn't get what I paid for. It was frustrating as hell because I know they hosed me.

Mazdax605 said:

I recently bought 4 new tires at a local large tire shop. Included with the purchase is a 4 wheel alignment. The guy at the register showed me the before and after results, and it showed the drivers side camber in red on both the before and after. I inquired about this, and he said that the camber wasn't adjustable on my car. I said "I highly doubt that" and questioned how a modern car would not have camber adjustment? He then brought over his alignment book to show me that the book say there's no adjustment, but I saw that it indeed did have adjustment, and pointed it out to him. He then grabbed the alignment tech, and asked him about the camber adjustment. He shook his head, and said no, there is no adjustment. So I paid for an alignment, and really didn't get what I paid for. It was frustrating as hell because I know they hosed me.

This is something that burns me up. Why weren't you allowed to talk directly to the tech and show him the adjustment for it? It could have been a learning opportunity for one or all three of you. Instead, it's just sorry bout your luck, bye.

I literally just walked in from Gateway Tire in Hernando, MS where I had the Miata aligned. I could not be any happier. Not only did they bring the mechanic up front to talk with me, I sat in the Miata while he hit the numbers I brought in. The technician's name is Steve Mullet .

It's within spec. This isn't the shop being lazy, it's them aligning to manufacturer recommendations. You should see how cockeyed cars are when they come off the production line!

Now, if you want better than the manufacturer specifications, you'll have to either do some legwork, work with the shop or pay more. Tips:

- call them ahead of time and ask when their quiet periods are.
- book ahead, don't just walk in.
- let them know what specs you want if you don't want manufacturer specs. If you give them specific numbers, they'll probably try to hit them.
- give them all day for the job. I'm usually there when they open.
- pick shops that have race cars sitting around. They don't even have to be shiny fancy road race cars, a banged up late model circle track racer still means they'll understand.

Having worked at NTB in the past.  The tech makes $15 off an alignment not matter how long it takes.  They don't get the normal flag hour rate.  If it's a warrantly alignment the tech only makes $5 no matter how long it takes.  If it's in factory spec(in the green) they're gonna send it out the door.  They aren't gonna waste time adjusting things that are "almost out of spec" because they aren't getting paid to do that.  And, often times when you adjust one thing it moves something else that will then take even longer to fix.  

If you aren't happy with the alignment from somebody getting paid $5, pony up the cash to go to somebody that does race car alignments or talk to one of the techs to come in on a slow day and they will take more time and put the alignment to your own specs.

That's a decent alignment, and won't cause any issues.  I aligned cars for 11 years at a body shop as a mechanic, its not a money maker for shops, it's a necessary evil.  They don't hardly ever brake even on parts, equipment and labor costs.

What kind of car? I ask because many FWD cars use a torsion beam rear suspension, which basically have zero adjustability. To change toe or camber on a torsion beam means removing hub assembly and adding precision angled shims and bolting it all back together. It's a lot of labor, you need to order special shims ahead of time, and not worth doing if it's within spec. 

freetors said:

Most tire shop alignment places are lazy. If it's in the green it's good enough for them. Getting it exact takes a lot of time consequently a lot of money.

Only "lazy" by racing standards but essentially yes. This alignment is plenty good enough for street driving but you might want some more effort put in for a track car. A race shop will be happy to put in some more time to get the settings closer to the ideal numbers (and charge you some more money for it). On the extreme end of the spectrum, Fall-Line will spend most of a work day fine-tuning your alignment to perfection, for very un-grassroots prices.

Yeah, lazy isn't the right term.  I think 'they dont work for free' is a better term. Alignments can run the gamut from super easy to giant PITA but the tech's pay doesn't run any gamut at all, it's universally low. There are plenty of people who get more than their money's worth of time put into a PITA alignment on their car. If someone who got an 'easy' alignment feels like they were ripped off for two whole digits of dollars, you could always do what the tech did and learn to do it yourself. But, even in that case it would only be fair to be stuck with a couple of the PITA jobs as well just so you have some perspective on what exactly you're dumping on. Alignments get charged pretty much a flat rate. For every $79 alignment that a 'knows just enough to be dangerous' consumer thinks should have been $30, there's another customer out there that would have been charged $300 if it wasn't a flat charge. And neither one of these customers would probably be willing to do it for anyone else for $15-20 pay even if they knew how. 

Have we mentioned that you can buy your own professional alignment machine setup for the low low price of 30-40 grand? How many $79 alignments (minus expenses of course) will you have to do before it's paid off? 

I guess it all comes down to how far down the rabbit hole  you want to go over the difference between 'in the green' and whatever your unprofessional opinion of what it should be is (again, you always have the option of becoming a professional tech if you feel like you're missing out). I think for most people the price of an alignment is a pretty dang good value. 

I do all my own alignments, I had a issue where shops said a issue could not be fixed, so I did it myself and never looked back. 

In reply to Vigo :

There's a difference between a customer being a pedantic shiny happy person and the OP's issue, which was aa full charge for a slap-dash toe and go on a car that needed more work. 

But according to the manufacturer, it didn't need more work. Who gets to decide that manufacturer specs aren't good enough for a generic street car alignment?