Opinions on tire alignment service

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The specs from the dealer are different than the specs from the shop. I'd go with the manufacturer specs, who indicated too much rear toe.

I'm missing something here.

The first picture is from the dealer, which shows an acceptable range of 0.03 to 0.60 total rear toe. The actual amount of toe measured is not specified but it appears to be right on the edge of that 0.60.

The second picture is from the alignment shop and shows an acceptable range of 0.03 to 0.60 total rear toe, with an actual rear toe of 0.48.

When the car was on the Hunter it was meeting manufacturer specs.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Sorry, I misunderstood. The specs are the same but the dealer showed the total rear toe "in the red" (.60 or more total). If I was the OP, I'd show that to the second shop and ask how the car got back into spec on the drive over and point out that that was the whole reason he went in.

slap-dash toe and go on a car that needed more work. 

It's not slap dash if the car doesn't need more work, which it doesn't.  

Plus, if you notice, the rear toe angle between the two alignment readings is off by .1 degree, which is exactly how much they corrected the front right toe by. What are the odds that the next alignment machine is going to say the front right toe is off, or that the rear total toe is out of spec AGAIN even though it was probably never adjusted? Margin of error blah blah, but suffice to say after rolling a car off an alignment machine and right back onto it and seeing the readings change, this doesn't surprise me. Good enough is good enough, because if not an alignment machine will eat your soul.

To be fair to the OP, i haven't insinuated that they themselves are the shiny happy person here. They asked for an opinion based only on a couple of pictures without actually saying that their car had any symptoms or issues whatsoever, and the rest of us here on GRM are the ones who picked up and ran with it being a E36 M3ty job despite being in the green and the customer having no actual specific complaints. 

Edit: Just saw Javelin's new post. We might be closer to thinking the same then i thought when i started typing this. 

In reply to Vigo :

Yeah I'm questioning the change in before specs. We really need more info from the OP. My comment about "needing more work" was specific to the dealer showing the rear toe out of spec.

Margin of error in the machine. Heck, a heavy alignment tech driving the car on to the rack could probably shift the alignment slightly as the car won't sit quite the same. The alignment shop is only responsible for their own machine, how do they know that a machine somewhere else is accurate or maintained properly or calibrated? They can't, they're only able to control their own stuff.

A cynical mind would point out that the Toyota shop was offering the alignment check for free and that's why it failed. I once had a Mazda dealership do a free 21 point inspection on my car, and they flagged the battery as being on its last legs. I replaced that battery 8 years later when it started to struggle with my new high compression engine. Free inspections are designed to bring business to the service shop.

Just to toss in on the "completely unrelated to the original post" bandwagon we have going on, I've always had good luck at the local high end collision shop getting a good alignment done when I ask to pay by the hour and aligned to my specs.  They don't let me sit in the seat, but they're happy to toss some weights on the seat & floor to simulate me.  Generally costs me ~$130-150 at this shop for an alignment, but the numbers are always logically/reasonably close to what I wanted.  But, per Keiths' point, I make an appointment to do it.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I understand that dealer's do bad things, and the lack of actual numbers on their report supports that theory. That being said, rear toe should not change at all with weight (camber yes, but toe?), and if the machines are that out of tolerance then the spec should be tightened to compensate or the machine re-calibrated.

If the OP was my customer back at the tire shop I was at, every single service writer would have sent it back in to the tech. A customer doesn't walk in with a estimate and just get the kind of lack of service that the OP got. The OP isn't responsible for the raw deal "techs" get, but he does deserve to at least get what he paid for, which was a 4-wheel alignment, not a front only toe-and-go.

Javelin said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I understand that dealer's do bad things, and the lack of actual numbers on their report supports that theory. That being said, rear toe should not change at all with weight (camber yes, but toe?), and if the machines are that out of tolerance then the spec should be tightened to compensate or the machine re-calibrated.

With some kinds of independent rear suspension, toe can change with vertical suspension travel/sprung weight. Multilink suspension and double-wishbones with toe control rods that aren't aligned with one of the arms are some examples.

Javelin said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

If the OP was my customer back at the tire shop I was at, every single service writer would have sent it back in to the tech. A customer doesn't walk in with a estimate and just get the kind of lack of service that the OP got. The OP isn't responsible for the raw deal "techs" get, but he does deserve to at least get what he paid for, which was a 4-wheel alignment, not a front only toe-and-go.

I guess the real question is - how much work would your techs put into trying to hit the center of the range instead of just within the manufacturer +/-? The customer paid to make sure his alignment was in spec, not to have fingerprints on every bolt. He came off the rack with a car that was green all the way around. How much better does he have a right to expect, and who makes the determination as to what the acceptable range is if it's not the manufacturer?

Don't get me wrong, when I get alignments done on my performance vehicles I make sure they're pretty darn precise. I don't give them a range, I give them numbers and they will almost always hit them perfectly. But that's a shop that knows me and we understand each other. When I bring in an everyday car, things are a little more relaxed. Our customers expect perfection so that's what we strive to get them, but they're also not going to a generic franchise.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

It doesn't have to be center of the range, but I guarantee if the service order says that the customer brought in an estimate concerning rear toe, that they would at least attempt an adjustment. Same thing with being right on the edge of acceptable, the good techs would address it at least.