"Outclassed" - Why having the "best" car is so important in autocross

You guys should give 3 editors a sum of money

I lawl'd.

That line should be read with hammonds voice...

Capt Slow wrote: You know this thread just gave me a great idea for a magazine article... You guys should give 3 editors a sum of money and tell them to go out and aquire an "off" car to compete in the STS class. Then hold a shoot out comparing a nationally competitive car with the editors creations... Whichever editor wins gets a case of beer...

I mean, how hard can it be?

I feel your pain I run ssm in a fairly modded miata but at the end of the day what is important is the autocross experience. Auto crossing for me is like going to the coolest car show in the world every weekend in the summer because everybody shows up with their baby or beater talks bullE36 M3s and, then they get to use there equipment. I doing it for the experience of hanging out with other motor heads and improving my driving also to ride in some bad ass cars that I can't afford yet. But all in all Enjoy the experience you wanna get nuts about winning go club racing. So give those faster cars hell and if they get you hate on the engineers who built them to race against you.

My Capri is really not the car to have in SM: it's an old, live-axle street car with a big engine, lousy brakes, and skinny tires. But I have a ton of fun autocrossing it, mostly sideways. Also in my stable I have an '89 Civic Si, which I bought new. This car would be competitive in several classes, and I sometimes think that I should just give up and bolt some stuff to the Honda. I haven't given in to reason yet, though.

I would like to see some of the GRM staff weigh in on this. How about it guys do you think you can make it happen? and (more importantly) what car would you pick???

Weigh in on an ST car? Having driven some of the fastest ST Hondas in the country, as well as various also-rans, I certainly feel that there IS a reason there are so many Hondas out there. Now, there other options (240sx for one) that are also interesting and fast.

I'm a firm believer in having the right tool for the job and I do not look down on my fellow autocrossers that build 89 Civic Sis or other cars du jour. With any rule and class set, there are often cars that rise above the lot. I see no problem with that.

I find it funny that people get bent out of shape about the subject.

I keep telling myself that a heroic job of driving can net a trophy with nearly any car. Once in a while, I'm right.

I'd pick an early Miata for STS. I fit in them, and you can't beat 'em in the "fun to drive" department. I also have access to more Miata spares than anything else. If I had to pick something off-the-wall, it would probably be a Subaru Brat because rear-facing jump seats are awesome.

for some reason ST seems more limited as to what your allowed to run than STS. I was talking about picking an STS car.

I would pick a CRX, easier for me to drive than a Miata (I like FWD) and I've always wanted my own barbados yellow CRX.

Per

Since the CRX/miata are the it cars to have for STS I was thinking they would serve as the control car that you would have to try to beat at the end of your build...

Yea, sorry, I would still pick the Honda.

Capt Slow, for STS - the class formerly known as STS2, with Street Touring rules but for two seater cars specifically excluded from the main class - I would go with either an EF CRX or an NA Miata. Both are great cars, and both will respond quite well to ST modifications.

If I wanted an underdog car, I'd go for a non-supercharged AW11 MR2. It is the ONLY MR2 allowed in the ST classes. Adds the aspect of a mid-engine car to the class, which has got to count for something. For one year I ran an 85 MR2 in STS (then STS2). It was only set up halfway. I had a shorty intake, bigger exhaust for a supercharged model, Tokico struts, Eibach springs, and 205/50/15 Azenis on Saturn alloys I had kicking around. It also had worn out bushings, stock sway bars, stock alignment, Eibach street springs rather than coilovers, and a gawdawful faded red paint job. With the proper mods made to the limit of the rules, I still think an AW11 could be in the hunt, at least locally. I was usually the "best of the rest" as it was.

Yes I am codriving a AW11 MR2 we are gaining on the miata that dominate the local SCCA events.

I have the feeling that there are more underdog cars outhere and it would be interesting to see what some talented car builders / drivers could do with them.

There just aren't many good choices in the ST class outside the CRX and Miata, although an MR2 would be awfully cool. The right RX-7 could work, too, but effective go fast parts for a Miata or CRX are cheap and plentiful. What's left?

ST might be another story. I think a well prepared and heroically driven SE-R, Neon, BMW 3-series, or SVT Focus could surprise a lot of folks.

think you're outclassed....you don't know outclassed like I do with my old ride

It ran in STU (occasionally beat an STi or two, but was generally uncompetitive), then DSP (pulled off one 1st and a bunch of 3rds in a class with generally 5 or 6 cars, few of which were true DSP builds, and then EP (a few of my favorite "street" mods that I would NOT remove put me there, so I suffered through some serious thrashings and some funny looks).

that said, winning is fun, but playing in a car that doesn't belong anywhere near an autocross is just as much fun, especially if you're just doing it for the hell of it and not trying to win a season points title or anything...

of course, the other option is to run something so ridiculous, that you will literally get applause when you finish 14th in a 15 car class.....

If I recall correctly, this guy actually beat about a half-dozen cars (out of 120 or so) in a stock odyssey...

where's Family Truckster when we need him...

Ian F wrote:

where's Family Truckster when we need him...

strangely enough, I have a picture of him at an event like 5 years ago

In reply to jj:

exactly!

Ten years ago I bought The Heinous Honda and then discovered autocross. It did very well in H/Stock, despite terminal east-coast rust.

But I'm a tinkerer, and H/Stock was getting boring.

So I picked a class to run in (F/Super Stock - Canadian rules), and then picked a car (The Sinister Sentra) that was competitive for the class and prepped it accordingly. Once it was sorted out and performing It did well too. Despite being quicker, it was never as fun as the Civic and never PAXed as high as the Civic.

Then I built the The Lethal Locost because I always wanted a Super 7. It is FAR more fun than both those cars put together, and yet I will NEVER PAX anywhere near as well as long as the car remains street-legal. And as long as I continue sucking as a driver.

And I'm beginning to not care so much about winning. When I had the Heinous Honda, all I did was autocross - it was my focus. Now I have projects I'm developing at work, projects I'm doing at home, two great kids, an awesome wife, a house and yard to look after, and while I know I can focus deeply again and pour my heart into winning, I just don't care any more. It's not high on my list of priorities. I like building, and I like seeing the developmental progress in the car. But I'm no longer willing to expend the energy to make the car win or make my driving win. It needs to be an escape for me. I'm more interested in having fun.

This doesn't put food on your table, it's supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong.

I run a first gen RX7 as well. I generally finish with a big grin. I go into intensive training and care so I can turn the thing. Rack and pinion is next. Drove my son's Miata on a fun run after using the RX7 and lurched off the course as the steering was so quick and light.

here locally there is a Z3 that does fairly well in STS, he and I have had a season long battle, it's been fun.... we would be tied right now if I hadn't missed an early season event (it was raining over a 1/4" per hr and I had a 2 hr drive to get to the event.... I wused out...)

wbjones wrote: here locally there is a Z3 that does fairly well in STS, he and I have had a season long battle, it's been fun.... we would be tied right now if I hadn't missed an early season event

I actually cracked the top 10 in points simply because I've attended more events than some of the faster guys (I'm a noob, so most of them are faster! ).

I guess my competitive nature's "not quite dead yet"..

I ran a Crown Victoria in PR, then M2 in rallycross...talk about outclassed.

at the most recent autocross, I ran my 92 Ford Aspire in G Prepared...I was last on PAX!