Owners of new-ish Dodge GCs, what don't you like?

This may just be a thought exercise, as convincing my wife is no easy task.  We were talking about my G37 the other day and she made the comment "Someday soon I'd like to have a nicer car".   Her daily driver is our 2010 Kia Sedona.   We've had it for 4 years now.  Before that, yep, another Kia Sedona of the same generation.  She's been DDing basic trim level Sedonas for the better part of 7 years now.  With 3 kids, we need a big vehicle.  She's perfectly content with having a minivan, as the "stigma" doesn't bother her.  But ours have been basic, cloth seats, cheap plastic everywhere, stripper models.

Based on her comment, I did a quick poke around on Autotrader.  Obviously, I'm a die hard Sedona fan.  We've had them for 12 years straight and they've been all but bulletproof.  A current generation one, such as a '13-'14 would be in our target price range of $15-$17k.  However, it again would be a base trim level so why bother?  I didn't realize how cheap the Dodge Grand Caravan is.  I can pick up a '17 or even '18 GC for around $15-$16k, in the "GT" trim.  I didn't know much about that trim, so I looked it up.  Damn, it's packed with features.  Leather seats in all 3 rows, heated front and center seats, heated steering wheel (sense a theme here), power sliding doors and power hatch, 110v outlet, nav, 3 zone auto climate control, remote start, satellite radio, back up camera, on and on.  Hmmmm...

What am I missing?  What's the downside to them?  Honestly, the Stow n Go is of no value to us, so that's not a selling point.  In 12 years, I can count on one hand the number of times we've removed the middle seats.  But the features the van comes with make it seem like a nice place to spend time.  Even though it's an old design, I don't think it looks ugly or dated, especially in the GT trim.  Again, trying to convince her may be pointless as she sees the value in keeping and beating our Sedona a few more years.  Honestly that's hard to argue with, because I see it too.  But I know she likes nice cars and doesn't like having a basic trim level, so it's worth a shot.

So if you own one, tell me the little things that bug you in day to day living with it?  Maybe something you wouldn't notice in a test drive. 

I have a 2012 Town&Country Limited, which is the same basic package but older and a little higher trim.  But reading your feature list, maybe not even that.  Ours has the 3.6 Pentastar, which I guess they all do since about that era (you could get the 4.0 in the Caravan for a while).

Honestly, it doesn't have a ton of downsides for what it is and what it does.  They're a huge value.  It's quiet, roomy, and powerful enough to haul some stuff.  Handles and rides decently; better than a full-size SUV and with a lot more interior room.  6 large adults fit comfortably.  Ask me how I know - we're not a small family.

Ours is almost 7 years old and has 60,000 miles on it.  Nothing has broken at all; everything works fine, even the power stow-n-go rear seat.  There are a few minor quibbles, but really nothing major at all:

• The navigation is not the easiest to program, and it locks you out of some settings when you're rolling, unless you use voice commands.  But with ubiquitous smart phones, does this really matter?
   
• Vigo will chime in here and say how horrible the gear spread of the 6-speed transmission is, and for his specific driving pattern, it may be suboptimal.  But for the 95% of us who aren't Vigo, it works just fine.  Shifts are not always perfect, but I personally don't have anything to complain about it.  I even use the manual shifting option when we're in the mountains.
   
• Pre-2012s had some issues with undersized front brakes, but that has been solved in later models.  Ours are fine.

Honestly, you may not think stow-n-go means anything, but I bet you start using it more just because it is so easy to do.  And even if you never do, you can store a ton of stuff in the underfloor bins (though it has to come out to fold the seats).

I heartily recommend.

My mom has a 17 gt.  It’s very nice inside and out, goes fine stops well and is an all around great value.  They pull a small camper with it as well as it being her daily.  

So a 2015+ Sedona is safer than the Dodge due to the poor Dodge performance in the small front overlap test. Prior to that it is probably a wash as the older Kia's have poor roof strength test performance.

My cousin also has a GC and the anec-data from his ownership experience is that the drivetrain is not very reliable. If you plan on DIY-ing the vehicle, it would probably be annoying but ok; for him, it's cost him a bunch of money to do things like fix the ticking valves and random leaking hoses. Around these parts I would guess that you're not intimidated by stuff breaking!

I have a 2011 T&C, and pretty much echo what Duke said.  I test drove an R/T (now GT?) and it was too stiff - the T&C is living room comfortable.  I have had TIPM issues with mine, but have them addressed for now.  It took a new alternator, battery, PCM, and a fuel pump bypass kit though.  Other than that, its just needed fluids, brakes and tires.  We're closing in on 90K miles.  We've done a couple of 1000 mile trips with ours and it eats up miles in comfort - plenty of storage in the seat bins and behind the 3rd row.  Seats my family of 5 (3 teenagers) just fine, heated seats and wheel are things I didn't know I needed.  The new models get HDMI and USB inputs rather than just RCA and analog plugs.  We have the dual screen system but the kid in the 3rd row usually just watches the 2nd row screen.  Audio system is good and the wireless headsets means the kids can watch Up! on loop (road trip tradition) while we listen to Sirius.  The blue ambient lighting looks more upscale than our green.  It gets a solid 20 mpg around town and high 20's on the longer trips.  Stow N Go is a great feature and takes a couple of minutes to make a cargo van, able to haul 4x8 sheets flat, with the hatch closed.  Since the floor is essentially flat, it makes a great camper too.  I haven't towed anything more than small cargo trailers, but it handled the task without an issue. 

Other than the TIPM issue, its been a great van, and that shouldn't be a problem with the 2015 and newer vans. 

Why not a 2015+ Sedona SXL? By the time you're ready to buy, I'd think they would be sub-$20k, here's one that already is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Sedona-SX-L-FWD/273164785804?hash=item3f99e3d88c:g:jr8AAOSwV6ta8nUf:rk:27:pf:0&vxp=mtr

Save more and bite the bullet on an SX or SXL (or even EX with the leather upgrades) on the Sedona. Seriously, the interior on our '17 Sedona SX is nicer than my dads '12 G37.

I think the Stow n Go is a neat trick, but it just isn't a selling point for us.  In all of our years we never needed something like that.  My wife actually loves sports sedans, which is one of the reasons I bought my G37.  So this is more of a "sensible" need due to family size.  So if we have to have one, she'd like it to be a comfy, cozy and luxurious (relatively speaking) place to be. 

No, even though I hang out here, I'm not much of a DIY guy.  I can do basic mechanical work, but even that I don't do much of anymore.  I'm just so busy and have so little free time.  What little free time I have I'd rather spend with my wife and/or kids than under the car.  Heck, an oil change at a quick lube place only costs $20 with a coupon.  I'll spend $25 at the parts store if I do it myself.

EDIT - just saw the recent comments.  We love the Sedona, as I said we've owned one continuously since January of 2007.  If it were in budget, I'd push for it.  However, the newer generation in SXL trim is going to be at least $7k more than the GC, probably even higher and our budget is firm.  Not so sure of a place like "Off Lease Only" listed above.  I've looked at them, and they seem a bit sketchy.  I'm going to try to convince her to at least go look at a GC and drive one.  If she doesn't love it, fine.  We're quite content with our Sedona, it's a fabulous van.  If I had to lay odds, it's a solid bet we'll keep it a few more years.  But I know she wants something nicer, so it's worth a look.

How old are your kids? I.e. how long do you need the Minivan to be reliable trasnport? If kids are young, get a used XLE Sienna. If the kids are older, get a GC.

I rent GC once a month. Its fine as a rental, but the engine is course, quality is low, but you get what you pay for.

I've owned my 2014 GC since new and it's been great.   I have just under 40K  miles on it now.  I do have an semi-annoying suspension clunk coming from the back that I suspect is a bad bushing, exhaust hanger but I haven't been able to diagnose it yet.   Besides that (rather small) issue, the van has been trouble-free.

The trans gets a little clunky if you leave the "econ" button on---- turn it off during city driving, as it's only recommended for hwy use. 

I second the Stow & Go praise.   You may not think you'd use it, but it's so easy and handy to pop the seats up or down, I use the feature all the time.  (and I don't have kids)  

I average about 18-20 mpg in town, and 25-29mpg on the open road.   The interior is nicely fitted, and a pleasant place to spend time.  The stock radio sounds good, and overall it's done exactly what it was designed for and then some.   It's relentlessly practical---- and has 13 cupholders!   :)  

I love mine, and would buy another.    

In reply to Klayfish :

If you are not a DIY-er, I suspect the Sedona will be more reliable than the FCA product. Why the Sedonas depreciate so quickly is beyond me given the equipment, comfort and reliability. People in my hood would rather spend $10 grand more and have an Odyssey.

We have a 2014 T&C we bought used(ex Enterprise rental) with 58k on it, that now has 132k, mostly interstate miles. With Waze and/or a radar/laser detector you’re virtually invisible at any speed, though it probably helps that ours is white. 

Just this year I’ve finally started doing maintenance. The spark plugs aren’t exactly easy to get to, but once you know how it’s not a difficult or long job. I’ve also done front brakes & just this weekend did shocks & front strut assemblies. None of them were overly difficult vs other vehicles. 

We’ve had fairly good luck with it. It had a oil sensor/switch fail a couple years ago, but with YouTube vids it was about a 1/2-hour job. The BCM somehow “forgot” both our keys this fall, requiring a tow to the dealer & ~$400 to get them reprogrammed. And the EGR solenoid started giving an intermittent failure a few weeks ago. It’s a $30 part & twists on/off by the fuel tank, so I replaced it while doing rear shocks.

About 1/2 the time when you pull up the window switch on the passenger’s front door, the window will roll down instead. Usually it works the 2nd time, but the driver’s switch has always worked. Also occasionally the HVAC fan will randomly turn on while driving. 

I am concerned about potential transmission problems, but these vans are so cheap & plentiful at auction that I may just buy a whole wrecked van if/when I have problems. 

I wouldn’t say we love it, but I wouldn’t say that about a hammer either, yet they’re both very useful tools - and the van is far more versatile. 

As I said, I agree the newer Sedona is really nice.  That's probably reflected in the fact that they aren't depreciating like the previous generation.  A nice '15 or '16 is still in the low-mid 20s for SXL trim. 

I don't want to get too far off track and turn it into a "what car" thread.  Our current Sedona is a great beast of burden, I'd very highly recommend it.  I just decided to poke around based on the comment my wife made.  I didn't realize how cheap a nearly new loaded GC is, with lots of bells and whistles that I know she'd like.  Figured it's worth kicking tires and asking about ownership experience.  Worst that happens is we decide keeping our Sedona is the right thing.  Hell, we kept our first one for 7+ years.

We are happy with our 2017 Grand Caravan. Two minor points: No spare tire, and no Bluetooth on the trim level we bought, even though it LOOKS like it would have a spare and Bluetooth. FCA is tricky with the decontenting.  Ours has been totally trouble free, though. And it has more room, features and greater fuel efficiency than our old 2002 Caravan.  We got the Stow n Go third seat but the totally removable second seat, because that seat is more comfortable for grownups than the thinly padded ones that fold for Stow n Go. 

Caravan Dan the Minivan Man

I can see stow and go being more useful to me once I get rid of the last big bolted in car seat and go to boosters.  Until then.. It's not useful.

I’m not an owner but I’ve rented a dozen or so GC and T&C all with the 3.6 VVT.  All are supreme road trip cars.  Very comfortable.  I don’t know though if some are geared different than others, have different torque converters, or maybe the transmissions are calibrated differently because I’ve found seat of the pants performance to be all over the map.  I basically purchased my Jeep JK based on the performance of the first GC I rented.  I figured that if the Jeep was as ballzy as that minivan (it isn’t) then that would be a good thing.  I then went on to rent other GC’s and TC’s that didn’t perform nearly as well.  But I had a few that did.  And it didn’t seem to correlate with trim level.  I had T&C’s loaded with all the bells and whistles that felt more svelte when punched than other R/T’s and vice versa.   

In reply to A 401 CJ :

IIRC these have an adaptive program built into the transmission so the van "learns" how you like to drive and it changes the shift patterns accordingly.   It takes the car a little while to learn, so perhaps with several different drivers this could be an explanation.

I could totally be wrong---- but for some reason I remember hearing about that feature.  

Oh, and a blonde joke too.  Hertz girl (drop dead gorgeous blonde) calls me to ask what I’d done with the seat.  “Stow n Go” I told her.  It didn’t register.  I had to drive back down there to show her how the seat was inside the floor.  I didn’t mind one bit though.

I own a new model 15 Sedona EX and my dad owns a 17 Dodge GC GT. Next van is a Pacifica Limited.

The GT is a nice package but isn't the same level of the SXL. I think it would compare better to the EX with all the packages or the SX. 

As niceness is the driving point of you search, the Kia is far and away more "luxurious" than the Dodge. The Kia seats are of better construction and driving behavior is better but with quirks. 

Basically the Dodge is a 10-11 year old design with some updates and just as reliable as the Kia has been. Still for niceness, go with the Kia SX (or loaded EX). You will be impressed. 

Is the second row in the Grand Caravan fixed (meaning it wont slide forward or back)? I believe it is for stow & go to work, so that's one consideration if you're going to have larger kids / teenagers in the third row.

I liked the powertrain, brakes, and handling of the GC we rented a few years ago. Even driving from Phoenix to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon and back, mileage was still in the high 20s and we were doing 70+ for most of the trip. Given the hills and elevation, I thought that was impressive.

Have a ‘14 T&C that was a Enterprise rental, has 85,000 on it now we bought it with 36k or so. Haven’t done anything but it needs brakes. The thing I dislike Is how clunky the Bluetooth phone connection is. If that’s the worst I can come up with I think it’s pretty good.

STOP STOP STOP!!!!!......I'm currently going down the very same path...focus!!! It is not what

YOU thinks' she wants .......it's exactly what SHE asked for in the FIRST place.....not what you're 

looking at currently...so back up, deep breath and try to remember what you were told to 'look' for 

in the first place...oh and wait for the running board request should your choice require it....'happy hunting'

Having driven them both recently for a vacation rental, I can say this:

The GC is not pretty, it quite literally is a large box on wheels.  It has bawls though, give it some throttle and it moves quite smartly for a van.   Power lift gate and remote start are nice features, especially when the weather is a bit extreme.  Being able to fold one of the middle seats away Andy leave the rear seat helped with handling luggage and the two car seats. The Sedona only folds the middle seats forward so it’s taking up valuable real estate.  It handles pretty well for a van, not too soft, but not too firm.

The Sedona, looks a bit better, but in rental trim feels CHEEEEAP inside.  The integrated window shades are a nice touch, not enough to make up for the brakes that are now modulating badly after driving down from Haleakala aka 10,000 feet.  It doesn’t have the grunt the GC has, turning off eco mode helps, but not enough.  It managed the climb just fine, but you had to wind it out a bit more.  It handles less sharply, so you have to be very smooth.  The shifter position makes more sense.  The cup holders don’t handle our larger water bottles, so we have them rattling around in the center console.

If the battery in the GC hadn’t crapped out and left my family stranded in 85 degree heat, I’d still be driving it over the Kia.  Thanks to helpful locals, we got it jumped and Thrifty took care of us quite quickly, but stuck us with the Sedona, which is a step down in this case, at least I didn’t get saddled with the Nissan Quest they tried to pawn off on us.  Twice!

The Kia suffers from the same issue as the rest of their line does, unless you buy the top of the line model, they feel much more cheap and uninspiring.

759NRNG said:

STOP STOP STOP!!!!!......I'm currently going down the very same path...focus!!! It is not what

YOU thinks' she wants .......it's exactly what SHE asked for in the FIRST place.....not what you're 

looking at currently...so back up, deep breath and try to remember what you were told to 'look' for 

in the first place...oh and wait for the running board request should your choice require it....'happy hunting'

 

Amen to that.  As I said in the original post, this may all just be a thought exercise.  It's her daily driver, not mine.  If we didn't have 3 kids, she'd want a sports sedan, but it is what it is.  She's perfectly fine driving a minivan and enjoys my G37.  She just made the casual comment about wanting something nicer than the stripper Sedona.  We're all on vacation next week, so I figure there's nothing to lose by going and kicking a tire or two. 

Totally agree the SXL Sedona is fabulous...but it's also $8-$10k above what our budget would be, so it's really not even a consideration.  I may not even get her to agree to go look at a GT.  Her car, her decision, but I can just offer suggestions.

My brother has a '14 T&C which I borrowed this past summer to take my family from KY to MA for vacation.  I've done the trip many times in my Suburban but for fuel prices, I figured this year to change it up.  In the Suburban we take up ALL the space and I can't really see out the back window (2 adults/4 teenagers).  In the T&C the packaging of the stow-n-go seats means that you basically have a "basement" where bags can get stashed completely out of sight.  As we left the house I looked into the back and was purely astonished to see.......nothing.  It looked like we were headed to the movies, not a pile, bag, pillow to be seen.  Just amazing.

We drove up and down Mt. Washington, it averaged 25 mpg, and it did everything without drama.  The only quirk was that sometimes the cruise control won't come on at the start of a trip but if you shut it off and back on it'll work fine.  Oh, and the "manual mode" on the shifter won't hold much torque.   It would insist on downshifting in the mountains of West Virginia but most cars do that.