P71...so, what's the downside?

My wife loves cheap-to-own cars. She literally does not care for anything but cheapness and a bit of safety. After my Reality Bites thread got a couple P71 suggestions, I started reading and, holy crap, it turns out they do really well on crash tests. Also, holy crap, they're cheap.

Maybe this is my ticket out of Passat hell. First, a couple questions.

Realistically, what do I lose over an Accord or other normal Japanese people mover by going with a P71? Is it significantly less reliable? Is it harder to work on? Why woudn't I want one? How are they in the snow compared to a big BMW, Benz or Volvo or other decent RWD car with snow tires?

Second big question: How do I get a well maintained one if I know nothing about American cars? Seems like $5K should get me a 2004+ car (which is when they got side airbags?) without a problem. Should I get one from auction? From someone on a forum somewhere? I can't afford to get totally hosed on a lemon. Are they generally better or worse maintained than normal civilian vehicles? Is there some big P71 nerd in the midwest that can steer me in the right direction (as a Michigander, I like scary state police blue)?

The downside? I'd ask if there was an upside as it should be a much shorter list. I never did understand why anyone who was not forced by employment to drive one would own one. Of course... I've only ridden in the back but I can tell you that even with the little wells for your hands to go in, it is none too comfortable.

You don't know how many times I have heard "oh, a Volvo, we don't stock parts for German cars". Yeah. American parts are super easy to come by. I don't have any P71 specific knowledge, but the non internet car part world is super easy for American car owners.

I've driven my Mom's old 1995 Grand Marquis since January 2006 and my only complaint is that it is pretty boring to drive. On the plus side, it is dead reliable, huals tons of stuff, just crushes highway miles, and gets decent mileage (~23 mpg combined city/highway) with enough power to pass comfortably.

Just yesterday, my roommate and I won our third SCCA TSD rally in it. Mine has 106k on it and eats one or two quarts of oil every thousand miles. I want to get a new car, but I just can't justify getting ride of my one owner, meticulously maintained big ol' American sedan. plus it's fun watching people dive on the brakes when I pull out behind them on the freeway at dusk.

Took me a few to find it but this thread describes a potential plug issue.

tuna55 wrote: You don't know how many times I have heard "oh, a Volvo, we don't stock parts for German cars". Yeah.

Just had to post that again.

Given their life as a police vehicle, retirement, reinstatement as a taxi and then ran another 200K it is hard to go wrong with.

Just get one with the light and get a copy of Beastie Boys Sabotage for when you are driving through town.

my advise is to be picky. There's no shortage, so wait for a nice one, it won't cost that much more.

good tires are the difference between being capable in the snow or not.

the accord will get better mileage. Do the math & see if it's enough to matter.

I've had mine since the summer of 2008 & I'm still in love.

Heh, boring is ok. This is for my wife. She really, really doen't give a E36 M3 about how it drives. In fact boring is GREAT if it means more time/money to spend on my fun cars.

For shorter family trips, I've got a '91 535i running on an E28 M5 clutch/flywheel, quicker ratio LSD, big sway bars, H&R's and Konis, Conforti chip, short shifter and B'stone RE-01R's. When it's just me and one kid or a track, I've got my Miata.

The only time I'd drive the Ford is when I'm test driving it after fixing it or we're taking a family road trip.

belteshazzar wrote: my advise is to be picky. There's no shortage, so wait for a nice one, it won't cost that much more. good tires are the difference between being capable in the snow or not. the accord will get better mileage. Do the math & see if it's enough to matter. I've had mine since the summer of 2008 & I'm still in love.

Fuel economy doesn't matter too much, really. She's got a 4 mile commute and we only take 3-4 longish trips per year. Whatever I get will have good snows on it, so that's not an issue.

So, how to actually find one of the things....

I want to see pics of your 5!!

I love the 5. Even in poop gold. Maybe ESPECIALLY in invisible poop gold. When I finally lose the tint it will be even invisibler.

Rolled over 229K this weekend:

love it.

Why would you lose the tint? Do you resent the fact that your interior has been protected for so long?

i can't remember or find the name, but there is a place in Livonia, MI that specializes in used police cars. THey refurbish them and resell them. If i find it, I'll post here. I'm looking too :)

Hmm... You know, it sounds like you might be after a civilian Crown Vic/Grand Marquis.... Just a thought.

Yeah, civvie version will fit you much better.

The 01-02's are the oldest worth getting. The 03+ are well worth the price premium though (all-new frame, suspension, brakes, and steering!). P71-specific performance crap will be beyond your wife. She'll appreciate actual comfy seats in the civilian version better. Look at Grand Marquis, they are literally hitting rock bottom.

Safest thing this side of a tank to plop kids into, and the trunk will actually hold all of their crap. Stupid easy to work on and literally the cheapest car in America to ensure. Parts are ridiculous-cheap. The motor is a total terd though and will randomly spit spark plugs out at you. I recommend pulling them all and re-inserting at least every 15K miles, along with a trans service (filter change only). Other than that, they are rock-solid reliable.

Can't beat them at the price. I miss mine (except that good-for-nothing 4.6... One day I'll buy an 03 and swap in the new 5.0...)

For me, the only problem with a P71 (for a cheap commuting thing that gets decent mileage) is that the front seats suck. Very uncomfortable after a while.

I find my Grand Marquis seats to be quite comfortable, and the front seats have more than enough room for 6+ footers, though, the rear seats have surprisingly little leg room.

Let me say this: the thing is an indestructible hulk of a tank. Yeah, it wallows through the corners, it isn't the prettiest car, it doesn't scorch the quarter mile, but it moves people, it lives for the freeways and long trips, it starts every time.. I could go on and on.

The only problem I have with it is that I'm 25, single, and driving a grandma car. Which is fine, it just isn't the car I want right now.

I would hold out for a Lincoln Town Car. There is no downside. It's an immensely desirable car.

I agree, back seats dont have the greatest amount of legroom. the older models such as my 1999 marquis with recirculating ball steering have literally zero steering effort or feel. You could maneuver in a parking lot with your pinky finger with little effort.

Sometimes, at least in my civilian version of the platform, it feels like you are driving a waterbed its so floaty. But on the other side of the coin sometimes it just absorbs rough roads to the point where you dont even notice.

It does handle quite predictably at the limit I have to say. I can take turns with a little speed and the car does not complain or misbehave.

I am a few months away from having to make a decision on whether to trade mine in on a truck, or just buy a used truck and keep the merc around. I love the car, its reliable and comfortable, and it would be fun to upgrade the tired suspension to P71 specs and go rallycrossing.

The plus side of the civilian models are that they are better equipped than the P71's on the interior, not so utilitarian, and generally always owned by older folks. You may pay more, but generally they did not have a hard life.

I bought my one owner car with 62k on it a few years ago for $5300, and it still looked completely new everywhere inside and out. Even with 87k on it now it still is in much better shape than my dad's 2000 Chevy Impala with similar mileage.

The automatic (not an issue in your situation) turns me off. The uncomfortable seats (in both the civilian and the PI) bother me, too.

Aside from those two things, I definitely understand why people like them. They're so damned cheap. I liked the suggestion above to check out the Town Cars, but I don't know if they're as cheap as the GrandMa or CV.

Finding one? Look in communities with lots of retiress. Around here, there are more crown vicsmercs privately owned, and rarely driven than I've seen anywhere--though I don't live in FL. There's one up the street that's never driven in the winter.

For a cheap one, hard to beat a police auction. They have to be well maintained--for obvious reasons--and often police depts routinely rotate them out of service after X number of miles. There's an ex-NYC one sitting in the parking lot downstairs with 115k miles. No problems, says the retired cop owner. Numb steering and driving, but reliable transportation.

P71 had complaints about the plugs galling/thread problems, BUT I don't recall if he swapped out the engine for a different model, or if it was stock. My 2 cents

She wouldn't appreciate the cop stuff, but any time I drove it I would. I can't say I wouldn't take it to a rallycross or autocross here and there just for giggles. I love getting sideways in a big car. It'd also be awesome to be able to tow a car relatively easily. In any case, I'll keep my eyes open for civilian crown vics and deals on Town Cars and Grand Marquises.

CGLockRacer, are you talking about Trumbull Auto Sales?

Thanks for all the advice, btw.

Powar wrote: Aside from those two things, I definitely understand why people like them. They're so damned cheap. I liked the suggestion above to check out the Town Cars, but I don't know if they're as cheap as the GrandMa or CV.

They aren't, after looking around a bit. Seems like about $2K and $4K price difference. Seems like P71's are way more available than civilian ones around here, too.