Robbie said:buzzboy said:I was just reading that the newer Goldwings come with a DCT. That gives you a lightweight 1833cc flat 6, ~100hp and a DCT. Just need a smaller car for it.
all of that sounds great except the 100 hp out of a 1.8l part. I thought honda was famous for getting 100 hp PER LITER out of their car engines? what gives on the goldwing?
Current Goldwing has 125 hp
MotorsportsGordon said:Robbie said:buzzboy said:I was just reading that the newer Goldwings come with a DCT. That gives you a lightweight 1833cc flat 6, ~100hp and a DCT. Just need a smaller car for it.
all of that sounds great except the 100 hp out of a 1.8l part. I thought honda was famous for getting 100 hp PER LITER out of their car engines? what gives on the goldwing?
Current Goldwing has 125 hp
ok, fine, but may I remind you that the integra GSR (1.8l motor) made 170 HP - back in 1994. 1994 was 25 YEARS ago. And don't try to tell me this is about torque because the GSR weighs about 3 times what the goldwing does. Even the most pedestrian civic available today has a 1.8l non-turbo motor that makes 140 hp. I do understand that HP ratings keep getting updated so 1994 hp isn't equal to 2019 hp.
I'm just very surprised that the goldwing would seem to have such a sluggish engine. Especially from a brand like honda.
In reply to Robbie :
It's very much NOT a performance bike. It has a big engine for the effortless power to move a two wheeled sofa smoothly down the road, not for doing it quickly. Think Cadillac, not Integra.
It’s for big cruising bike ,designed for torque and smoothness.
Well, you have the 6, is it supercharged? easy button. the broader the curve, the less you have to shift.
Next question, street miles?
How much money?
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/chevrolet-chevy-ls-six-speed-rear-wheel-drive-sequential-gearbox is an option, still clutch for some things. and plenty of power room for all the LS fueled schannagians you might desire in a stalker (if you can drive a 750bhp stalker, well, good on ya!)
https://www.ppgearbox.com/tremec-t56-magnum-magnumxl-tr-6060 This one lets you keep things pretty normal otherwise.. a bit pricey though. That said, add up what the BMW swap would cost and put it next to this ~$7k and see what comes out ahead.
You are basically going to spend a bunch of money on this. Unless you go motorcycle power and radical weight reduction... Turbo busa?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:In reply to Robbie :
It's very much NOT a performance bike. It has a big engine for the effortless power to move a two wheeled sofa smoothly down the road, not for doing it quickly. Think Cadillac, not Integra.
I get it. But I still don't think Cadillac would've sold well if it had less advertised HP than a similar-sized engine in the pedestrian Chevy. As stated, the civic engine at 140 hp should have plenty of torque for the 'wing since a civic weighs 3x as much. I have never ridden a goldwing, so I can't comment on the drivability. I'm sure it is amazing. It just strikes me as odd.
Honda sales person says: On this side of the dealership we have the cheapest car we make. And over there is the most expensive bike we make. The bike has the same displacement engine as the car, and has 2 extra cylinders. With all those extra cylinders our engineers have managed to lose 15 hp. We don't know where it went. Maybe it is in the break room under the coffee filters. Could be in a drawer in the marketing department. But seriously, if you see that 15 hp somewhere please let us know.
In reply to Robbie :
I've thought about using a goldwing engine in projects a few times because reverse is nice on a 3 or 4 wheel anything and I guess it just got better with the DCT. I used to question the HP to but I'm sure its a vibration thing....those engines peak at like 5500 and they just up the displacement to get to the hp they're after. No doubt the hp could be fixed though.....
mke said:In reply to Robbie :
I've thought about using a goldwing engine in projects a few times because reverse is nice on a 3 or 4 wheel anything and I guess it just got better with the DCT. I used to question the HP to but I'm sure its a vibration thing....those engines peak at like 5500 and they just up the displacement to get to the hp they're after. No doubt the hp could be fixed though.....
You'd have to get into all kinds of stuff like can the clutch discs handle it. Can you program the ECU to increase the clamping pressure of the transmission so the increased HP doesn't slip, etc.
I suspect their aren't a ton of tuning options for a Goldwing transmission.
z31maniac said:mke said:In reply to Robbie :
I've thought about using a goldwing engine in projects a few times because reverse is nice on a 3 or 4 wheel anything and I guess it just got better with the DCT. I used to question the HP to but I'm sure its a vibration thing....those engines peak at like 5500 and they just up the displacement to get to the hp they're after. No doubt the hp could be fixed though.....
You'd have to get into all kinds of stuff like can the clutch discs handle it. Can you program the ECU to increase the clamping pressure of the transmission so the increased HP doesn't slip, etc.
I suspect their aren't a ton of tuning options for a Goldwing transmission.
and that is why God gave us Enginelab that will literally let you do whatever you please control wise :)
HP doesn't slip the clutch, torque does so flow work and cams that increase the RPM the torque happens at but don't add a lot of torque add hp without a lot of risk to the clutch or gears....if the engine itself is happy with the revs. Its a pretty short stroke so you could about double the RPM if you really wanted to, then it would be 200-250hp. A turbo or blower are easier but then the torque shoots up and the drivetrain becomes suspect.
The main reason I've never torn into this is I just haven't found a project that it made enough sense to bother with. You can add an electric reverse to any chain drive bike powered setup a whole lot easier and cheaper then building a hot goldwing engine and all bikes give you a sequential trans so even the new DCT goldwing is ony a small improvement I'd think.
I'm just not sure what the right project for this work would be? A 2/3 scale 911? A speedster body on a midengine chassis is what I was thinking....but then a 911 engine just seems more right but my though at the time was the goldwing setup would be quite a bit lighter. Don't know......
mke said:I'm just not sure what the right project for this work would be? A 2/3 scale 911? A speedster body on a midengine chassis is what I was thinking....but then a 911 engine just seems more right but my though at the time was the goldwing setup would be quite a bit lighter. Don't know......
I've been thinking about this all day now....mid engine MG midget! That's the project its the right engine for :)
Or maybe an old honda...600 car is that what they were call? Little tiny thing, perfect for a goldwing engine
In reply to mke :
Funny thing, Gold wing uses 2 timing belts of the same part # as 600cc car
In reply to TurnerX19 :
There it is then, it was ment to be!
Someone else mentioned it - https://www.miataturbo.net/suspension-brakes-drivetrain-49/7speed-getrag-dct-transmission-swap-99647/
mke said:z31maniac said:mke said:In reply to Robbie :
I've thought about using a goldwing engine in projects a few times because reverse is nice on a 3 or 4 wheel anything and I guess it just got better with the DCT. I used to question the HP to but I'm sure its a vibration thing....those engines peak at like 5500 and they just up the displacement to get to the hp they're after. No doubt the hp could be fixed though.....
You'd have to get into all kinds of stuff like can the clutch discs handle it. Can you program the ECU to increase the clamping pressure of the transmission so the increased HP doesn't slip, etc.
I suspect their aren't a ton of tuning options for a Goldwing transmission.
and that is why God gave us Enginelab that will literally let you do whatever you please control wise :)
HP doesn't slip the clutch, torque does so flow work and cams that increase the RPM the torque happens at but don't add a lot of torque add hp without a lot of risk to the clutch or gears....if the engine itself is happy with the revs. Its a pretty short stroke so you could about double the RPM if you really wanted to, then it would be 200-250hp. A turbo or blower are easier but then the torque shoots up and the drivetrain becomes suspect.
The main reason I've never torn into this is I just haven't found a project that it made enough sense to bother with. You can add an electric reverse to any chain drive bike powered setup a whole lot easier and cheaper then building a hot goldwing engine and all bikes give you a sequential trans so even the new DCT goldwing is ony a small improvement I'd think.
I'm just not sure what the right project for this work would be? A 2/3 scale 911? A speedster body on a midengine chassis is what I was thinking....but then a 911 engine just seems more right but my though at the time was the goldwing setup would be quite a bit lighter. Don't know......
You are correct about torque vs HP. But the idea that you could just double the RPM isn't very likely. A engine that was designed with a power peak at 5500 that stops at 6k..............just make it turn 12k? I guess if you employed Cosworth to build you some $250k Goldwing engine maybe.
z31maniac said:You are correct about torque vs HP. But the idea that you could just double the RPM isn't very likely. A engine that was designed with a power peak at 5500 that stops at 6k..............just make it turn 12k? I guess if you employed Cosworth to build you some $250k Goldwing engine maybe.
That's fair, but really...it doesn't need to double, you know you could up the torque some and be fine...30%? 50%?. 78mm stoke is pretty safe to 9000 rpm, drag guys would push to 11 or 12....if you can get the air flow. My 78mm stroke engine engine is built for a peak around 9500, stock was...6500? I think. I always start with the head on the flow bench and see whats available or possible and then match everything up. I know the goldwing is intentionally flow restricted on every front.....just sayin that its a very light decent displacement engine with a nice trans so using one is not the dumbest idea I've ever heard....maybe not the best idea either but not the worst.
Edit...wait its 73x73...that's good to 10k if you could get the flow.
If I were doing a bike-engined front engine car with driveshaft, I'd consider Honda ST1300. Longitudinal V4. 116HP stock at 8K RPM. Goldwing reliability but with a more performance attitude and a more interesting sound. Probably better availability of HiPo parts too, although I have not investigated.
But for this Seven, we are not considering bike motors, it would be a step backwards. That Quaife looks like a hot tip if the budget can stretch to it. And it's a dog box so it can shift really fast. I worked with a guy on electronic controls for air shifted bike transmissions. he had some cool patented technology for not killing the box when the dogs didn't line up, and we still got <50ms shifts almost always. With throttle kill for upshifts, no clutch. The pedal was still there so the driver could clutch on downshifts and starts. It would be fun to write software for that too... if I had infinite time.
Still wondering about less expensive solutions. As an OP said, the BMW six is probably too long and tall for the engine bay, plus all that electronic complexity.
You'll need to log in to post.
